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Online Vigilantism

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Online Vigilantism

Postby Akimbo » Thu, 06 Nov 2014 12:41 pm

ICYMI, just google Sim Lim Square, scam, Vietnamese guy, $200, kneeling.

I honestly preferred to do things by the book, but when push comes to shove like what happens, and you can't feedback your way to an actual improvement what else is there to do than to take matters into your own hands?

http://mothership.sg/2014/11/internet-takes-epic-revenge-against-sim-lim-square-mobile-air-shop-owner/

I've been following the Facebook posts of the mentioned "mega-troll" even before mothership or Yahoo reported it. It's been quite an amusing event...

What do you guys think? Ethically wrong? or is it a nice breath of fresh air to see "the villain getting his just desserts"?

Maybe I'm kinda pot stirring, but I honestly do want to make my own conclusion of it by getting more opinions about it. Why shouldn't we do vigilantism? Why should we do vigilantism?

PS. Mods, if the conversation is a bit too heavy, maybe it should be in Strictly Speaking sub-forum?

PSS. I haven't said it before in any posts. But sleek looking new forum, guys!
My thread...The Weekenders If you need my e-mail address, it's in the first post of the thread.

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x9200
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Re: Online Vigilantism

Postby x9200 » Thu, 06 Nov 2014 1:18 pm

I am very happy seeing people taking the law into their own hands in cases like this one. It's not only about the punishment but most importantly about attracting publicity so the law makers hear it and may consider to change the law. Although I generally think the law concerning different agreements should be as flexible and free from the state interventions as possible, but the cases like this need to be addressed somehow. It is just about the fundamental fairness/justice of the legal system that should not allow scam like this to get away without any harm.

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Re: Online Vigilantism

Postby the lynx » Thu, 06 Nov 2014 2:11 pm

That's the reason why I enjoy watching groups like SMRT Feedback (Facebook) and EDMW (Hardware Zone) do their magic on online vigilantism.

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Re: Online Vigilantism

Postby ecureilx » Thu, 06 Nov 2014 3:56 pm

as long as the vigilantes didn't get physical, it's ok, considering the toothless CASE and attempts to put things right

Ah, the 50 pizza is gonna be a big party

Singaporeans have been patient enough with the Scams of Sim Lim Mobile Shops, as well as the Lucky Plaza Mobile shops !!!

about time, I would say !

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Re: Online Vigilantism

Postby nakatago » Thu, 06 Nov 2014 6:25 pm

#OpsAirKangKang just appeared on Google+, this time with a story of scammed Viet Tourist.

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Re: Online Vigilantism

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 06 Nov 2014 8:56 pm

Here's another one from the 'peens......

http://www.yugatech.com/curious/sim-lim ... customers/

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Re: Online Vigilantism

Postby QRM » Fri, 07 Nov 2014 8:28 am

While the Vietnamese guy scenarios seem genuine, what happens when shop competitors start making fake sob story videos in the hope it will go viral and the public backlash will shut down shop?

A joint in New York tried to scam me, kept promising me an international version of a sony laptop with warranty and a GBP sign on the keyboard. He kept asking for the cash first while his chums got it from the warehouse around the corner. What arrived was nothing like what was promised and he was just going to stick a pound sign over the dollar key. Buyer beware is the best motto but I can understand people let their guard down here because of the government PR campaign that SG is an island you can trust.

What is odd, the victim here signed the paper work so everyone is saying nothing they can do, I am no lawyer but if the paper work was designed to cheat in the first place then it can be voided? Otherwise charity folks who stop you in the streets for a signature can suddenly say you signed a document to hand over your house, or a mugger can ask you to sign a paper saying you willingly handed over your wallet?

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x9200
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Re: Online Vigilantism

Postby x9200 » Fri, 07 Nov 2014 8:50 am

QRM wrote:While the Vietnamese guy scenarios seem genuine, what happens when shop competitors start making fake sob story videos in the hope it will go viral and the public backlash will shut down shop?

The competitor will rather sooner than later end up bankrupted. Note, that what happened is backed up by a number of cases against this specific shop. The Internet as a body of people is full of idiots and they can be easily manipulated but also has this useful peculiarity that is extremely effective in digging up all related information. I don't think a competitor doing something like this would survive long time unknown to the public. This would be a suicide.

QRM wrote:[..]What is odd, the victim here signed the paper work so everyone is saying nothing they can do, I am no lawyer but if the paper work was designed to cheat in the first place then it it is voided?
Otherwise charity folks who stop you in the streets for a signature can suddenly say you signed a document to hand over your house, or a mugger can ask you to sign a paper saying you are willingly handed over your wallet?

You have to prove a fraudulent intent and this is not trivial. property is a different matter because it typically needs a notarized form for validity.

On the other hand, I believe the Vietnamese guy would recover his money in the court but in his case I don't see it doable on purely practical ground.

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Re: Online Vigilantism

Postby nakatago » Fri, 07 Nov 2014 9:09 am

x9200 wrote:
QRM wrote:While the Vietnamese guy scenarios seem genuine, what happens when shop competitors start making fake sob story videos in the hope it will go viral and the public backlash will shut down shop?

The competitor will rather sooner than later end up bankrupted. Note, that what happened is backed up by a number of cases against this specific shop. The Internet as a body of people is full of idiots and they can be easily manipulated but also has this useful peculiarity that is extremely effective in digging up all related information. I don't think a competitor doing something like this would survive long time unknown to the public. This would be a suicide.


Idiots who can dig up a lot of accurate information; you know, monkeys, typewriters... Shakespeare.

It's what makes Anonymous scary and yet heartwarming when pointed in the right direction.

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Re: Online Vigilantism

Postby ecureilx » Fri, 07 Nov 2014 4:21 pm

QRM wrote:Otherwise charity folks who stop you in the streets for a signature can suddenly say you signed a document to hand over your house, or a mugger can ask you to sign a paper saying you willingly handed over your wallet?


years ago, a "FAMOUS" Charity here did a similar stunt

You sign for donation, and then they keep asking you to sign a small amount on GIRO, and then .. when you forget to leave that small amount in the bank account you get a demand letter that you pay the GIRO rejection fee, and they have the right to recover the money etc. etc. ...

Ex, I paid 10$, over 2 years, and while I was in Malaysia, my Acc went near Zero $.

And I get a demand letter from the charity that I cough up 30 $ (I think) and when I ignored it, another demand / sob letter saying my money will go a long way and the 30 $ the charity has incurred because of my giro failure caused immense problems to the needy etc. etc ..

I promptly called them and told them I have terminated the GIRO, and they can deduct from the 240 $ I had paid over the past two years !

I did get another beg/demand/crying letter from them .. and then the said charities internals unraveled anyway !

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Re: Online Vigilantism

Postby JR8 » Fri, 07 Nov 2014 9:20 pm

£7,000 raised for tourist who was filmed on his knees crying for a refund after being scammed buying iPhone 6 in Singapore for his girlfriend
- Pham Van Thoai travelled from Vietnam to Singapore for a holiday
- He decided to buy an iPhone 6 as a birthday present for his girlfriend
- However, he was 'duped' as price went from £595 to £940
- Vietnamese man, who earns £125 a month, had saved up for present
- Heartbreaking video shows him crying and begging on his knees
- Crowdfunding website has raised more than £7,000 for stricken tourist

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/trave ... z3IO8CsrOr
-------------------------------------------------------------

Top of the front page at the UKs Daily Mail. The UKs biggest circulation newspaper. Maybe, for impact, akin to it being front page on NYCs Daily Post.

Not the publicity Singapore wants, I should expect!


--- Daily Mail readers in the UK > mostly middle class women. Ask yourself why this would be a major article from a country half a world away, many will never visit... It doesn't look good at all.
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

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Re: Online Vigilantism

Postby ecureilx » Fri, 07 Nov 2014 10:23 pm

I doubt Govt gonna be upset about the news much

Other than using the opportunity to rush in new laws to curtail the likes of Mobile Air!!!

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Re: Online Vigilantism

Postby JR8 » Fri, 07 Nov 2014 10:53 pm

ecureilx wrote:I doubt Govt gonna be upset about the news much
Other than using the opportunity to rush in new laws to curtail the likes of Mobile Air!!!


Great result . You make big ads for luxury hotels, then do nothing when your shops ridiculously scam us?
So how ah?
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Re: Online Vigilantism

Postby bgd » Sat, 08 Nov 2014 9:50 am

I see the Vietnamese guy turned down the $12K and phone that was raised online. I reckon Singaporeans have come out of this pretty well with their response and generosity. And who knows, we may see changes at Sim Lim.

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Re: Online Vigilantism

Postby singapore eagle » Sat, 08 Nov 2014 9:51 am

I can't see the government rushing to bring new laws in.

The weakness/absence of consumer protection here hasn't come about by chance. It's been a conscious government policy.

All those surveys that have Singapore as the best place in the world to do business have a flip side - weak consumer protection law, weak employment law, etc.


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