Singapore IT recruiters and jobhunting

[Aragorn2000]

Some companies work through recruiters ONLY.

I think there is a trend to not use headhunters if they can, so using your network can really pay off and be mutually-beneficial (referral fee / job).

And to add to the above posters, if the company can get the candidate without having to pay the recruiter, they are more happy to receive your CV. So it is always good to be diligent and do your homework.

^^^ this

Does all that in this thread describe Singapore only? I thought, it is about recruiting as industry, Singapore has nothing to do with it.

I haven't experienced anything quite like this in other countries - so yes, Singapore IT recruiters encountered during my job hunt.... sounds like it's on topic ?

I think Singapore was bad to start and got even worse. I too have got the no update thing so many times I can't count. I won't work with those people again.

Much, much better headhunters in Japan (mostly foreigners).

So we underlings who do IT are screwed because of outsourcing. But in another thread, JR8's experience with business jobs (finance) doesn't sound very rosy either. It's the inevitable consequence of globalization when jobs are commoditized and we are being displaced by millions of cheaper workers.

So unless we become entrepreneurs, which is a pretty sure way to destroy ourselves financially, are we destined to be doomed financially?

Well, another industry. It was time to get out of IT years ago, especially banking IT. And most of the salespeople and traders I know no longer do those jobs or even work in banking anymore. It's not only cheaper workers, it's magnitudes of less people being employed by the industry. We have Dick Fuld to thank for some of this.

Some companies do work only with recruiters. Sending your resumes to their career site is like sending to a black hole. If the same resume was pitched by a recruiter, you would get a call immediately! Networking and personal referral is a completely different ball game. What if that company is completely out of your network?

Recruiters in Australia are even worse than in Singapore. Some are downright rude. I think the bottom line is whether we get the job or not. We just need to manage our expectation when speaking to recruiters. I'm always in fire-and-forget mode. If there is any traction with a job application, recruiters will come back.

[ecureilx]

Some companies do work only with recruiters. Sending your resumes to their career site is like sending to a black hole. If the same resume was pitched by a recruiter, you would get a call immediately!

My experience, with my profile has been that 99% of the possible employers for me worked through agencies, and sending directly, even via an internal referral didn't even elicit any response

The same employer, when I was referred via an agency, was prompt in responding

Ah, I believe many HRs are not bothered to network/sort/filter and all, unlike those days when HR had a tight ship, and worked with internal talent to scout for new talent

[nakatago]

Some companies do work only with recruiters. Sending your resumes to their career site is like sending to a black hole. If the same resume was pitched by a recruiter, you would get a call immediately!

My experience, with my profile has been that 99% of the possible employers for me worked through agencies, and sending directly, even via an internal referral didn't even elicit any response

The same employer, when I was referred via an agency, was prompt in responding

Ah, I believe many HRs are not bothered to network/sort/filter and all, unlike those days when HR had a tight ship, and worked with internal talent to scout for new talent

The caveat is if you're already on a company's HR blackhole-er-information system, agencies would no longer represent you. They know that if the company looks you up or create their internal record of you, they'll find you on the system and would no longer engage the recruiter, and in turn, recruiter won't get paid for that referral.

[Brah]

Some companies do work only with recruiters. Sending your resumes to their career site is like sending to a black hole. If the same resume was pitched by a recruiter, you would get a call immediately! Networking and personal referral is a completely different ball game. What if that company is completely out of your network?

Agree - if you look up "Taleo" in the dictionary you will see a picture of a Black Hole.

When attempting to get into a new location or industry, I seek out headhunters on LI. It rarely works, but it's better than nothing.

The ones who contact me have been about 99% useless. I don't accept invitations until they arrange interviews, but my email is free. Some are just building up their network, often after a job change, and I think it cheapens one's to add people who you never worked with or have not proven themselves to you.

...I think the bottom line is whether we get the job or not. We just need to manage our expectation when speaking to recruiters. I'm always in fire-and-forget mode. If there is any traction with a job application, recruiters will come back.

Right, and my expectations are pretty much nil, so if anything come of these, I'm pleasantly surprised.

[zzm9980]

The company I work for is big on numbers and data. They said during new hire orientation that something like less than 5% of all unsolicited applicants to their website even received a call back, and less than 10% of *those* were eventually hired. Conversely, 1 in 5 internal referrals were hired. Moral of the story? It's always best to network and get your resume personally delivered to a hiring manager or internal recruiter via your network.

[brian_singapore]

I think HR told me in some presentation at some point that 1/3rd of our hires are via referrals. I found this figure astounding.

Speaking as a hiring manager, I can tell you that internal referrals get instant attention from me and get a lot more leeway in my decision to interview.

I'll often interview candidates whose CV isn't a good match on the assumption their was a good reason for the referral in the first place.

[Brah]

Interesting flow here - whaddya say we revive the idea of the Finance IT get together?

I'm keen if Sergei and WD can make it, too bad SE and Naka are out of country now, would be good to have them there.

If I get PMs on this will take the next step.

Hey - no idea how much longer any of us will be here.

[Sergei82]

Sending your resumes to their career site is like sending to a black hole. If the same resume was pitched by a recruiter, you would get a call immediately!

Also, recruiters do know some of the hiring managers personally and had experience at least drinking coffee with them in the past. Or at least those recruiters pretend to know them personally, dunno, but they usually keep some database with names of who works where and as whom.

Still, interesting to know, does (failed?) entrepreneurial background impact employer's opinion positively. I heard an opinion that yes - employers tend to think those people are harder to manage.

[ecureilx]

Also, recruiters do know some of the hiring managers personally and had experience at least drinking coffee with them in the past. Or at least those recruiters pretend to know them personally, dunno, but they usually keep some database with names of who works where and as whom.

Still, interesting to know, does (failed?) entrepreneurial background impact employer's opinion positively. I heard an opinion that yes - employers tend to think those people are harder to manage.

Ah, Coffee ah ? You don't know what else Coffee means in Singapore Or Kopi !!!

As for failed entrepreneurs et al, same as those who go for Debt Restructuring

than realise that a guy under debt restricting has less motivation to steal, vs those who are not, but maybe heavily swamped in Credit and has sleepless nights paying off leans / rolling, the employers not surprisingly prefer the latter

[Mi Amigo]

IME every interaction I've ever had with a Singaporean recruiter has been an utter waste of time and oxygen. If there are any good local recruiters out there, I never found any of them. For this reason I continued to work with the UK based recruiters I knew and trusted after I moved to Singapore, and they were often able to find me good candidates for my APAC vacancies. Some of the UK companies now have their own people in Singapore, HK, etc. so perhaps it's worth seeking them out.

However I absolutely agree with zzm about networking; IMO it should be the number one priority for someone looking for new employment. Also, having a strong LinkedIn profile definitely helps attract interest - although you do have to be objective and discerning about the contacts received. As with all other parts of the interweb, there are charlatans (and worse) on LI who can be irritating.

[Pflug]

Some companies work through recruiters ONLY.

I think the bottom line is whether we get the job or not. We just need to manage our expectation when speaking to recruiters. I'm always in fire-and-forget mode. If there is any traction with a job application, recruiters will come back.

This absolutely sums it up for anyone just starting out on their job search. Forget anything else the recruiters tell you including opportunities that may progress past the initial stage. My gut feeling is that recruiters lie to A) keep their own options open and B) avoid any difficult discussions. The only following up that makes sense is to send a linkedin InMail to the recruiter (if you know who they are) following an online application. In that way you may stand out. Otherwise submit and don't get your hopes up. Same applies to those linkedin InMails from recruiters. Handle in the same way regardless of how contact was initiated.

[Mi Amigo]

The only following up that makes sense is to send a linkedin InMail to the recruiter (if you know who they are) following an online application.

Well what I would also do is firstly try to establish the identity of the hiring company, and then use my network to make contact with people in that organisation who could help establish some visibility of my application by the hiring manager.

[Brah]

IME every interaction I've ever had with a Singaporean recruiter has been an utter waste of time and oxygen.

Reading this makes me want to qualify what I posted earlier.

My experience with Singapore-based headhunters has been almost completely negative. Most but not all of these useless headhunters were foreign. But of course there were useless local ones as well, more of the naive-useless vs. unprofessional-useless variety.

[Brah]

The only following up that makes sense is to send a linkedin InMail to the recruiter (if you know who they are) following an online application.

Well what I would also do is firstly try to establish the identity of the hiring company, and then use my network to make contact with people in that organisation who could help establish some visibility of my application by the hiring manager.

^^^am guilty of this. But only out of necessity per the gist of this thread.

Good to see you back posting here MI!

[Sergei82]

Whatever there is, I found my current job through a recruiter (UK guy from UK company that has office in SG, he contacted me himself when he saw my profile on LinkedIn)