Singapore IT recruiters and jobhunting

[the lynx]

I wouldnt mind KL if I could get my SG salary there. You can buy a condo and a car Lets wait a few years until the bullet train b/w SG and KL comes online and lets hope KL salaries reach closer to SG levels.

But at the moment, from what I heard you get the same SGD figure in MYR. I am not going relocating for that. I would rather go back home, if I really need to leave SG.

Expenses are also comparatively cheaper... I like KL but too much of the infrastructure just barely half works... and no one actually gives a shit... I mean... I have a hard time imagining Malaysia running a nuclear reactor.

:nodding:

[brian_singapore]

Thanks for the replies. In speaking to recruiters, job seekers in my position and a friend working in one of the biggest IT consultants in the region, it seems that infra/support/projects are being outsourced or scaled down for a number of reasons budget, not wanting the hassle of dealing with operational IT or as mentioned the fact that over 95% of things can be done remotely. Even some of the larger MNCs partner with outsourcing companies to provide them with 'Equipment Maintenance Technicians' or EMTs (IT Support). Glassdoor provides a good insight into what this is like. The turn over is v high in addition to having 20-30% of their pay swallowed by their employer.

Singapore's push (or at least within my company anyways) to outsource is leading to a tier'ing of staff and salary. Within my company, Salaries only go up. Within the outsourcers, rates only go down (we've just been involved in a round rate negotiations). This forces outsourcers to push down salaries which is very possible as their real talent pool (collectively) extends to most of asia, well beyond the limits of staff available in Singapore.

Our company MSAs require all outsourcers to agree to employee conversions at our request. With the salary differential so high, this builds a strong desire for the top vendor staff to migrate over to work directly for our company.... at much higher salaries.

[brian_singapore]

In a very short time, I've experienced more bad behaviour on the part of IT recruiters in Singapore than any other country where I've worked.

I had an IT recruiter come back and tell me a client was very interested in my profile and wanted to meet when I arrived in Singapore the following week. When I arrived, they completely stopped responding. To this day, I have no idea what changed, but I would have thought after presenting a profile, 2-3 back and forth conversations and an explicit request to attend a first interview that simply out of curtesy they would have given me a quick phone call to let me the employer was no longer interested. Or a quick e-mail. Or hell a text message.

It's also cost them. I've been excluding them when my postings have been pushed to recruiters.

My wife was presented with an offer that included a 'guaranteed bonus'. It was the first time either of us had come across and the recruiter kept pushing it as a major attraction in the package. We were a bit surprised a company would guarantee a bonus and got him to clarify in writing. When my wife went into to sign her employment contract, bonus was a standard variable compensation scheme based on job performance and clearly stipulated it wasn't guaranteed. When my wife showed the confirmation from the recruiter, the company HR censured the recruiter.

[Wd40]

To add to another angle to the SG recruiter's lack of professionalism. I have encountered 1st hand and also from other sources cases where recruiters basically treat candidates as 2nd level and even 3rd level back ups! The recruiters know very well that they are back up candidates but wont let the candidates know or even give them a hint. They will keep blowing smoke up their arses until the moment the primary candidate accepts the offer and formally joins the company. After that moment, they completely cut off, not responding to you at all!

Bear this in mind, always during your job searches. Never trust a recruiter blindly when they say, "you are almost through, just a more approval before you get your job offer"

[Pflug]

Based on my experience with them, recruiters in Singapore today remind me a bit of those shady property agents back around 2007/2008.

[Sergei82]

Does all that in this thread describe Singapore only? I thought, it is about recruiting as industry, Singapore has nothing to do with it.

[Strong Eagle]

Singapore's push (or at least within my company anyways) to outsource is leading to a tier'ing of staff and salary. Within my company, Salaries only go up. Within the outsourcers, rates only go down (we've just been involved in a round rate negotiations). This forces outsourcers to push down salaries which is very possible as their real talent pool (collectively) extends to most of asia, well beyond the limits of staff available in Singapore.

Our company MSAs require all outsourcers to agree to employee conversions at our request. With the salary differential so high, this builds a strong desire for the top vendor staff to migrate over to work directly for our company.... at much higher salaries.

It's a screw job... outsourcing is a way to get rid of higher paid employees in favor of more junior staff. It's always in the SOW.

Sure... the vendor always agrees to onboard displaced staff... but it doesn't last long, and those with the best skills and the highest salaries are forced to hit the road... leaving a sub-pool of lesser skilled, cheaper people.

I "get" that companies need to control costs... and I "get" that companies f*ck over long time, loyal and capable employees by outsourcing, then raising their hands, saying, "Gee... we are just outsourcing to be more efficient... your job will be OK."

[Aragorn2000]

So we underlings who do IT are screwed because of outsourcing. But in another thread, JR8's experience with business jobs (finance) doesn't sound very rosy either. It's the inevitable consequence of globalization when jobs are commoditized and we are being displaced by millions of cheaper workers.

So unless we become entrepreneurs, which is a pretty sure way to destroy ourselves financially, are we destined to be doomed financially?

[Sergei82]

I wonder, what is a sure way NOT to destroy ourselves financially these days?

And I also wonder, how potential employers treat failed entrepreneurs? Is entrepreneurial past an advantage or a flaw in their eyes?

[brian_singapore]

Does all that in this thread describe Singapore only? I thought, it is about recruiting as industry, Singapore has nothing to do with it.

I haven't experienced anything quite like this in other countries - so yes, Singapore IT recruiters encountered during my job hunt.... sounds like it's on topic ?

[rajagainstthemachine]

Based on my experience with them, recruiters in Singapore today remind me a bit of those shady property agents back around 2007/2008.

I have to agree, plus i would say it is better to deal with the company directly rather than going through these recruiters. it's worthwhile to invest in a premium linked in account ( ask OSOD aka PNGMK )
and start sending resumes to companies via their career portals.
This appears to be the best way and even in such cases, the companies are in no specific hurry to hire and will take their own sweet time to mull over.

[the lynx]

And to add to the above posters, if the company can get the candidate without having to pay the recruiter, they are more happy to receive your CV. So it is always good to be diligent and do your homework.

[Sergei82]

Some companies work through recruiters ONLY.

[Brah]

Some companies work through recruiters ONLY.

I think there is a trend to not use headhunters if they can, so using your network can really pay off and be mutually-beneficial (referral fee / job).

And to add to the above posters, if the company can get the candidate without having to pay the recruiter, they are more happy to receive your CV. So it is always good to be diligent and do your homework.

^^^ this

Does all that in this thread describe Singapore only? I thought, it is about recruiting as industry, Singapore has nothing to do with it.

I haven't experienced anything quite like this in other countries - so yes, Singapore IT recruiters encountered during my job hunt.... sounds like it's on topic ?

I think Singapore was bad to start and got even worse. I too have got the no update thing so many times I can't count. I won't work with those people again.

Much, much better headhunters in Japan (mostly foreigners).

So we underlings who do IT are screwed because of outsourcing. But in another thread, JR8's experience with business jobs (finance) doesn't sound very rosy either. It's the inevitable consequence of globalization when jobs are commoditized and we are being displaced by millions of cheaper workers.

So unless we become entrepreneurs, which is a pretty sure way to destroy ourselves financially, are we destined to be doomed financially?

Well, another industry. It was time to get out of IT years ago, especially banking IT. And most of the salespeople and traders I know no longer do those jobs or even work in banking anymore. It's not only cheaper workers, it's magnitudes of less people being employed by the industry. We have Dick Fuld to thank for some of this.

[Pflug]

On the entrepreneurship topic- its been an interesting exercise to be unemployed this motivated to tap contacts for some basic IT consultancy work. Interesting what the cat drags in. It has already brought in good legit income for a few hours work as a sole proprietor. Probably helps that I have PR but I'm starting to think that it should have been tested out earlier as supplemental income. I think the competitive advantage for us is expat to expat networking and communication. FT2FT