Regarding common law spouse and DP and such

[ThuyChi]

Hi folks,

I'm currently in Vietnam and have been for about two years after Singapore rejected several of my pass applications for heavens know why. My partner of 7 years is stuck in Singapore paying his NUS student bond. We're looking at a promotion that will give him over 4k a month. We're thinking once the promotion is confirmed, we'll get a ROM so he can get me a DP. What I am worried about is on paper our relationship would be super duper short prior to DP application (read: the moment we get our ROM cert, he's applying for my DP). Would that be an issue in ICA's and MOM's eyes? Should we include proof of relationships (flight tickets - we have a mountain of those from every other weekend flights, pictures, friends' statements that we cohabited and neighbours' statements from both countries about how often we pop in from another country to see each other, ect)?

A little background: Both holding Vietnamese passport. Both degree holders, educated in Singapore, though my degree is from a private school, though my diploma is from WDA. He's a chem engine from NUS, working as an engineer as well, has been with the company for over 2 years now. I'm in film and advertising, been working from Vietnam with international teams - not that it seems to count in the gahmen's eyes. Have been together for 7 years, cohabited from sometimes during our 2nd year together (can't really remember... Don't really keep tracks of these dates, haha) until I moved back to Vietnam two years back. I have his clothes in my house, he has my clothes in his flat, a millions of my pics on his walls, we however don't have joint accounts or official joint bills as we've been more or less separate the bills between us since we cohabited rather than jointly pay them.

The reason we're not legally married yet is simple: we are not the marriage type unless the paper becomes absolutely necessary, such as it is in this case (if either our birth country Vietnam or Singapore recognise common law spouse, we can happily skip the paper. Sadly it's not the case). We've tried getting him a job with a Singapore payroll but in a country that I can legally reside in long-term - no luck so far. Singapore has been rejecting my pass applications and lately I don't get interviews for full-time positions (therefore no full-time offers, and no pass applications whatsoever), and people in film would know it's not common for us to be committed to a company full-time long-term anyway... It's more of a contract per job basis, and that is so not getting me a pass

Rant over. So, back on the topic, would I be able to get a DP if we apply for it right after our ROM?

[ecureilx]

The reason we're not legally married yet is simple: we are not the marriage type unless the paper becomes absolutely necessary, such as it is in this case (if either our birth country Vietnam or Singapore recognise common law spouse, we can happily skip the paper. Sadly it's not the case).

Interesting ..

Unfortunately, you being an Asian, And Singapore constantly reminding people about "Family Values" et al, not gonna go down very well, about your view on MARRIAGE. And with the recent subtle changes in laws, discouraging 'alternative' lifestyle, the message is clear.

That's just my 2 cents.

The Common-law spouse is given an exemption status, for Western countries, and that's what I have seen so far.

And I am sure you did your groundwork, before coming here.

Good luck in pursuing your case though !

[ThuyChi]

Ah yes... Five years in Sg taught me well about how the government see 'alternative' lifestyles. He only has one year left on his bond, and then we can probably move elsewhere. People are not exactly forgiving of alternative lifestyle here in Vietnam either, one must throw a gigantic pointless wedding and produce two to three children right afterwards. If it's up to us, we won't be getting a ROM nor will we have children (for those who judge, having kids will probably kill me, or at least render me unable to work for a good year or so). But it seems the ROM is in the horizon and we're not escaping it... I won't mind something similar to a PACS in France, but there's no such thing in Asia

So you're saying my chance is slim, eh?

[ecureilx]

People are not exactly forgiving of alternative lifestyle here in Vietnam either, one must throw a gigantic pointless wedding and produce two to three children right afterwards.

And, Well, I thought India was bad

If it's up to us, we won't be getting a ROM nor will we have children (for those who judge, having kids will probably kill me, or at least render me unable to work for a good year or so).

Is that a medical opinion or your own ?

In any case, I am passing any opinion on you

As for chances, I am not the Decision Committee, but my suggestion is, you can take your chances and try !!!

[nakatago]

People are not exactly forgiving of alternative lifestyle here in Vietnam either, one must throw a gigantic pointless wedding and produce two to three children right afterwards.

And, Well, I thought India was bad

Pretty much the whole of Asia except Japan, Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea, PRC.....

[ThuyChi]

Ahhh the story of marriage in Asia. I won't go into details of how big and how complicated weddings are in Vietnam, but let just say in Hanoi (where I was born) it's even worse than it is in HCMC. Oh, but weddings in HCMC come with really loud techno music and karaoke that keep the neighbours up until wee hours in the morning, so there's that. And who want a three steps wedding that can go anywhere from a month to a year, all involves lots and lots of relatives that you only see during weddings and funerals, and friends of your parents who you couldn't even remember what their names are. And not producing children makes you a failure in life.

ThuyChi wrote:If it's up to us, we won't be getting a ROM nor will we have children (for those who judge, having kids will probably kill me, or at least render me unable to work for a good year or so).

Is that a medical opinion or your own ?

It's a medical condition. And the older I get, the more of my friends' children I held, the less I'd like children of my own. Don't get me wrong - I like children, as long as I can give them back to their parents at the end of the day or when things go south. My partner shares the same view - he's good with little humans, but he doesn't want one or two running around all day everyday. My little sister is 12 years younger than me and though I love her to bits, I didn't like her as a baby. She was cute and all, but I was like a mini mama to her and gosh, it wasn't the best experience in life. Couldn't give her back to my parents when things go south either - "You're her big sister, you should be able to take care of her!".

So, I should just try my luck then? Will dropping everything and coming to Singapore to stay for a month while we do our ROM and apply for DP help, or should I just carry on with my life as usual?

[taxico]

I'm currently in Vietnam and have been for about two years after Singapore rejected several of my pass applications for heavens know why. My partner of 7 years is stuck in Singapore paying his NUS student bond.

We're looking at a promotion that will give him over 4k a month. We're thinking once the promotion is confirmed, we'll get a ROM so he can get me a DP. What I am worried about is on paper our relationship would be super duper short prior to DP application (read: the moment we get our ROM cert, he's applying for my DP).

Would that be an issue in ICA's and MOM's eyes? Should we include proof of relationships (flight tickets - we have a mountain of those from every other weekend flights, pictures, friends' statements that we cohabited and neighbours' statements from both countries about how often we pop in from another country to see each other, ect)?

A little background: Both holding Vietnamese passport. Both degree holders, educated in Singapore, though my degree is from a private school, though my diploma is from WDA. He's a chem engine from NUS, working as an engineer as well, has been with the company for over 2 years now. I'm in film and advertising, been working from Vietnam with international teams - not that it seems to count in the gahmen's eyes.

Have been together for 7 years, cohabited from sometimes during our 2nd year together (can't really remember... Don't really keep tracks of these dates, haha) until I moved back to Vietnam two years back. I have his clothes in my house, he has my clothes in his flat, a millions of my pics on his walls, we however don't have joint accounts or official joint bills as we've been more or less separate the bills between us since we cohabited rather than jointly pay them.

The reason we're not legally married yet is simple: we are not the marriage type unless the paper becomes absolutely necessary, such as it is in this case (if either our birth country Vietnam or Singapore recognise common law spouse, we can happily skip the paper. Sadly it's not the case).

We've tried getting him a job with a Singapore payroll but in a country that I can legally reside in long-term - no luck so far. Singapore has been rejecting my pass applications and lately I don't get interviews for full-time positions (therefore no full-time offers, and no pass applications whatsoever), and people in film would know it's not common for us to be committed to a company full-time long-term anyway... It's more of a contract per job basis, and that is so not getting me a pass

Rant over. So, back on the topic, would I be able to get a DP if we apply for it right after our ROM?

i think the government (or at least the courts) do recognize a common law spouse, but not when the couple are two youngsters and without children... or assets.

i don't think statements/testimonials from friends and neighbors account for much. air tickets and photos will help. what else would help in proving a bona fide relationship, i think, are items like util/telco/bank statements sent to a common address, joint accounts, spouse's name as insurance beneficiary, joint-ownership assets, taking your husband's last name, etc. stuff from the time (3 years?) you two lived together in singapore would of course help if you still have them. but how/when to attach such items, i'm unsure. someone much wiser than me can chime in.

the two of you are still young. until a much later time or change in circumstance (kids, marriage, etc), be prepared to go through the trouble of proving the relationship in any country you and your partner may have to move to. i will say that, although i believe in "marital equality," your 7-year-old relationship with your partner does not (yet) smell like a "common law marriage" to me. i'm not implying the two of you are not in a genuine committed relationship.

your "cohabitation" from 2nd year is out of necessity as foreign students or did you two move out of your respective family homes in singapore to be with each other? are the two of you, at a minimum, identifying each other as husband and wife at the moment to everyone you know?

your partner's bond is something he and his guarantor knowingly accepted. please don't make it sound as if he is "stuck here" like he had no hand in his current situation. be thankful he was eligible for it, has a job here, and may be able to get you a DP.

while it's easy to blame everything that doesn't go your way on the "gahmen," (1. your partner's NUS bond 2. your past work pass rejections for full time employment 3. non-recognition of your "international work experience" 4. non-recognition of you and your partner's "union" 5. your partner's inability to game the system by getting hired by a singapore-linked company outside of singapore 6. your inability to get a work pass based on contract work) it would be wise to at least understand it's not a guaranteed right thus not something you should complain too much about.

MOM/ICA aside, i hope your reason for marriage is not going to cause you any inconvenience in future. good luck and i sincerely hope your life choices work out for you.

[ThuyChi]

Hi taxico, thank you for the comment and the well wishes. We lived together because we decided to move in - we were keeping separate residences till that point. It wasn't out of convenience - if it were, we'd have stayed together right when we made the move here (we started dating way back in high school, and no, we are not from the same high school. Our schools were actually about 30km apart). We lived apart for almost two years until we decided we wouldn't kill each other living together. Since we obviously do not believe in marriage, we don't call each other husband and wife - note the use of word "partner". All marriage/funeral invitations always invite us as a pair and not as individuals. Friends know we're together. Families don't count - they sort of disowned us when we started dating due to reasons that I'd rather not elaborate here. About the bills - like I said, we believes in equality - in our own little twisted way - so they are separated and whoever has more financial power at the point of billing would pay the bigger bill. We're also running a small start up together in HCMC, but I doubt that counts.

Haha I know I sound like I blame the system, but I don't. It's their country, their rules, their problems. In fact, even in Vietnam, it's the government's issues most of the time - we citizens don't have a lot of say. I just feel sad since most of my friends are in Singapore and having to move away to HCMC (which is a new city, so it took some adaptation in terms of custom and language and all, but a buzzing young city nevertheless) was a big blow for me. But hey, that's life! And thanks to it we're now both VERY familiar with short haul flights, and he even memorised the flight codes for flights to HCMC

Alright, no point whining. Guess I'll just close my eyes and jump into it like I do any other thing.