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In a bit of a pickle...

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
britdev
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In a bit of a pickle...

Postby britdev » Tue, 07 Oct 2014 3:00 pm

I'm not going to sugar coat anything here, just going to tell my story.

I went travelling in SE Asia last year and met this amazing girl, she's Chinese and a Singapore PR.

We kept things going long-distance, Skype, WhatsApp etc. She visited me in the UK for a few weeks earlier this year and it was one of the best times of our lives.

Fortunately I am self employed and run a internet-based business (mobile apps, though only sold to certain UK sectors). So after she went back home. I got my affairs in order in the UK and got on a plane to Singapore.

They gave me a 90 days visit pass, so we had to make them count. We went to Bali together and fell further in love.

They surprisingly gave me another 90 days after returning from Bali.

Currently my visit pass is due to expire on 1st Dec. Current plan is return to UK for a few weeks, ride out the Christmas month then fly back out to Singapore. I feel chances are quite low they'd give me another 90 days though.

We've been living together and are completely besotted with each other.

I should probably just hurry up and marry her which would surely make things a lot easier for both of us. But what can we do for the short term? She wants to come back to the UK possibly in June next year when the apartment lease is finished. Her job can probably transfer her (it's a big bank) and her boss has welcomed this, saying there's lots of positions there she could walk straight into and that the demand for someone like her is high.

I respect Singapore as a country and I am deeply hesitant to "abuse" their visit pass system; and I can't imagine they would let me for very much longer anyway. I have done lots of research and it seems there isn't really a visa suitable for me. Not entirely unexpected since our situation is fairly rare I'd assume.

Now guys/gals I guess this is where you'll deliver the bad news and thus obliterate my heart into a thousand pieces.

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Postby PNGMK » Tue, 07 Oct 2014 3:27 pm

I don't really see the problem.

Just keep coming in and extending your SVP online with a break outside until you get very short SVP's or until she's ready to move. UK citizens get a fair amount of lee way on SVP's. Eventually they'll warn you off but you leave for a week or so and then come back.

You can't work in Singapore but that doesn't seem to be a problem.

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Postby Akimbo » Tue, 07 Oct 2014 3:34 pm

That's not sugar coating anything...?

Goddamn man, looks like you hit the jackpot, really...so are you trying to brag to the rest of us single people or what? :roll:

Just kidding, man. :cool:

You haven't abused the system, really. (unless you've been travelling in and out of Singapore constantly, just staying in Malaysia or Indonesia for 3 days, just to get the 90 days pass?)

If you are self-employed, why not apply for a PEP of your own job? (That's what I hear some entrepreneurs are getting) But I think you have to register your company in Singapore or something. That way you can stay in Singapore legally in a longer term.

And marriage? I have another piece of advice for that, but I'll save it for later... :P
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Postby singaporeflyer » Tue, 07 Oct 2014 5:23 pm

Akimbo wrote:
If you are self-employed, why not apply for a PEP of your own job? (That's what I hear some entrepreneurs are getting)


PEP Applicant/Holder will not be allowed to start his/her own business or engage in any entrepreneurial activities. If he needs to start a new business here, he needs to apply for an EntrePass,which has its own set of criterias.

Please refer the below thread
ntopic84502.html

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Postby JR8 » Tue, 07 Oct 2014 7:16 pm

Your situation is similar to what mine was with my SGn wife, when she was living in NYC. I was self-employed and mobile, I went to NY over and over until the $hit finally hit the fan one day. I’ve used that situation as a parallel for people like you here, maybe you can Search/find some of my old posts re: that thoroughly unpleasant experience? [keywords: NYC, ‘Visa Waiver’, USCB&P, ‘Secondary inspection’, ‘Grosvenor Square’ etc].

SVPs are for tourists. The average tourist stays here 2.5 days. Pretty soon, on arrival at immigration with your pattern , you’ll be sent off for questioning.

Do not marry to get a visa. Do not marry someone you have never lived with, and instead only been on holiday with.

She wants to move to England with you already (warning gong no.1). That said it’s great she has some form of respectable career. How about she gets transferred on her own merits to the UK, and you then cohabit for some time and get to know each other?

p.s. how do you get on with her family?

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Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 07 Oct 2014 9:35 pm

singaporeflyer wrote:
Akimbo wrote:
If you are self-employed, why not apply for a PEP of your own job? (That's what I hear some entrepreneurs are getting)


PEP Applicant/Holder will not be allowed to start his/her own business or engage in any entrepreneurial activities. If he needs to start a new business here, he needs to apply for an EntrePass,which has its own set of criterias.

Please refer the below thread
ntopic84502.html


Neither a PEP nor the Entrepass will work for this gent. PEP's can't work for the company they own. Entrepass rules have become so infernally horrible that an internet business will never be able to meet them.

The only thing he can do is acquire a local director, form a company, then have that company file for an EP. This EP can be granted if MOM is convinced that the business is real, the person experienced, and the start up cash sufficient.

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Postby britdev » Tue, 07 Oct 2014 9:49 pm

PNGMK wrote:I don't really see the problem.

Just keep coming in and extending your SVP online with a break outside until you get very short SVP's or until she's ready to move. UK citizens get a fair amount of lee way on SVP's. Eventually they'll warn you off but you leave for a week or so and then come back.

You can't work in Singapore but that doesn't seem to be a problem.


Thanks. But I don't want to "game" the system at all. I want everything to be above board and legitimate.

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Postby britdev » Tue, 07 Oct 2014 9:54 pm

Akimbo wrote:That's not sugar coating anything...?

Goddamn man, looks like you hit the jackpot, really...so are you trying to brag to the rest of us single people or what? :roll:

Just kidding, man. :cool:

You haven't abused the system, really. (unless you've been travelling in and out of Singapore constantly, just staying in Malaysia or Indonesia for 3 days, just to get the 90 days pass?)

If you are self-employed, why not apply for a PEP of your own job? (That's what I hear some entrepreneurs are getting) But I think you have to register your company in Singapore or something. That way you can stay in Singapore legally in a longer term.

And marriage? I have another piece of advice for that, but I'll save it for later... :P


Lol when I said sugar coat I meant I didn't want to leave out critical pieces of the story that might give the impression here that I am trying to swindle some sort of visa illegitimately.

I researched PEP and Entrepass and all that and found them to not work for me. Entrepass has a stupid long list of pre-requisites and my business doesn't meet any of them. PEP has a minimum income that is currently a tad higher than what I'm paying myself. And also it seems PEP is meant for contractors that are working for other people but not themselves.

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Postby britdev » Tue, 07 Oct 2014 10:05 pm

JR8 wrote:Your situation is similar to what mine was with my SGn wife, when she was living in NYC. I was self-employed and mobile, I went to NY over and over until the $hit finally hit the fan one day. I’ve used that situation as a parallel for people like you here, maybe you can Search/find some of my old posts re: that thoroughly unpleasant experience? [keywords: NYC, ‘Visa Waiver’, USCB&P, ‘Secondary inspection’, ‘Grosvenor Square’ etc].

SVPs are for tourists. The average tourist stays here 2.5 days. Pretty soon, on arrival at immigration with your pattern , you’ll be sent off for questioning.

Do not marry to get a visa. Do not marry someone you have never lived with, and instead only been on holiday with.

She wants to move to England with you already (warning gong no.1). That said it’s great she has some form of respectable career. How about she gets transferred on her own merits to the UK, and you then cohabit for some time and get to know each other?

p.s. how do you get on with her family?


I'm not marrying anyone yet and I certainly wouldn't marry someone just to get a visa? That's silly. I from the UK and she's from Singapore, so neither of us are massively desperate in seeking a better quality of life per se. At least not in the same way as perhaps someone from India/Vietnam/Indonesia/whatever might be.

She isn't being duplicitous when she says of coming to the UK. She has been a PR here for 10 years and now I'm on the scene she (and I) both want to settle down; we don't mind much whether its the UK or Singapore. I already own an apartment in London very close to where her employer is; but if we don't need it then I'll rent it out.

I have lived with her... for about 4 months total this year. It's been perfect as well.

Of course she will get transferred on her own merit.
Last edited by britdev on Tue, 07 Oct 2014 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

britdev
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Postby britdev » Tue, 07 Oct 2014 10:11 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
singaporeflyer wrote:
Akimbo wrote:
If you are self-employed, why not apply for a PEP of your own job? (That's what I hear some entrepreneurs are getting)


PEP Applicant/Holder will not be allowed to start his/her own business or engage in any entrepreneurial activities. If he needs to start a new business here, he needs to apply for an EntrePass,which has its own set of criterias.

Please refer the below thread
ntopic84502.html


Neither a PEP nor the Entrepass will work for this gent. PEP's can't work for the company they own. Entrepass rules have become so infernally horrible that an internet business will never be able to meet them.

The only thing he can do is acquire a local director, form a company, then have that company file for an EP. This EP can be granted if MOM is convinced that the business is real, the person experienced, and the start up cash sufficient.


I will have to investigate. But again, it still feels somewhat illegitimate to do it that way.

The business is real, has been running for a couple years with some proper revenue in the last year. I'm experienced in the market to the extent I've already sold a startup I'd worked on for 6 years in the same market. And in terms of my profession, well I've been doing it 15 years and have a 1st class degree in it. Start up cash... can prove the investments made thus far, and plenty left in the pot too.

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Postby singapore eagle » Tue, 07 Oct 2014 10:33 pm

Re: the PEP route.

I'm not sure some of the statements above are completely spot on. When I moved here in 2008/09 my set-up was:

- have wife form a new company;
- obtain PEP;
- take employment with my wife's new company;
- channel the income from my existing UK business through my Singapore company so as to be able to pay myself a salary.

I've no idea how closely the authorities looked at this, but I'm still here 6 years later.

Back in 2003/04, when my wife was my girlfriend and then fiancee, I also managed to spend a good 6-9 months in Singapore on a stream of SVPs, with short visits back to the UK along the way. Maybe times have changed, though.

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Postby nutnut » Wed, 08 Oct 2014 10:58 am

JR8 wrote:p.s. how do you get on with her family?


This is a very important question, especially with Chinese families. I see what JR8 was asking there, make sure you have a good relationship with them.
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Postby zzm9980 » Wed, 08 Oct 2014 11:56 am

singapore eagle wrote:Re: the PEP route.

I'm not sure some of the statements above are completely spot on. When I moved here in 2008/09 my set-up was:

- have wife form a new company;
- obtain PEP;
- take employment with my wife's new company;
- channel the income from my existing UK business through my Singapore company so as to be able to pay myself a salary.

I've no idea how closely the authorities looked at this, but I'm still here 6 years later.

Back in 2003/04, when my wife was my girlfriend and then fiancee, I also managed to spend a good 6-9 months in Singapore on a stream of SVPs, with short visits back to the UK along the way. Maybe times have changed, though.


Curious since you said six years: your PEP should be expiring soon. What is the plan? PR, EP, something else?

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Postby JR8 » Wed, 08 Oct 2014 11:58 am

If there was a question in the OP it was deeply buried enough that it is hard to discern.

Is it roughly:

You've met this hot chick.
You've maxed out your visa/s here.
What can you do between now and June-15 to continue living here, before she potentially takes up a job in London.

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Postby britdev » Wed, 08 Oct 2014 12:54 pm

JR8 wrote:If there was a question in the OP it was deeply buried enough that it is hard to discern.

Is it roughly:

You've met this hot chick.
You've maxed out your visa/s here.
What can you do between now and June-15 to continue living here, before she potentially takes up a job in London.


How was that "hard to discern"? The opening post was pretty clear about it. Why are you trying to be a dick about it? Your first post also gave the impression you'd not actually read it so maybe you genuinely haven't read it.


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