PR Application Odds

[emulated]

Hey all,

I've been living in and out of Singapore for a very long time now, and feel like it's finally (or almost) time to take the plunge and apply for PR.

Quick profile-
Age/Sex/Marital Status: 22/Male/Single
Citizenship: Australian
Race: Mixed (Chinese and other East Asian [think Korea/Japan etc])
Education: Bachelor's from top 40 global university
Basic Salary: S$6,000 p/m
Industry: Financial services
Residency: EP holder - 2 different companies since Jan 2013

I lived in Singapore from 1997 to 2009, first on a DP, then on a student pass. I left for university and came back to work officially in 2013. I don't think my situation is that typical, so I'm at a bit of a loss on where I stand. Anyone have any thoughts?

Cheers.

[sundaymorningstaple]

I'd say wait until you have been here 2 years as an employee. All the rest is of no consequence, truth be known. I know it says you can apply after 6 months, but we've not see one of those for a long time unless they are in a really niche area that the gahment wants.

Of course, if you handle rejection well, go ahead and apply. Who knows, you might get lucky. Financial types tend to follow the dollars and the gahment knows this.

Would you be keen if they asked you to do NS as well? You are only 22 so well in the range.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Previously, no. Today? probably no. Tomorrow? Depends on how long and how loud the locals get. It's also a good way to determine who wants PR because they understand what "Permanent" means, or if they are here only to game the system.

[Wd40]

I do not understand why the locals would want foreigners in their armed forces of all places.IMO it shows a lack of national pride.
2nd gen,like in the current system , is slightly better since the person has probably been in Singapore his whole life and is more likely to feel that he/she is Singaporean ( although lacking voting rights )

There is no national pride in this country. There is only $$$ pride

[brian_singapore]

It's also a good way to determine who wants PR because they understand what "Permanent" means, or if they are here only to game the system.

And yet 'permanent' is not permanent - it is only for 10 years... so one might understand others confusion on the definition.

most countries PR really is forever

[sundaymorningstaple]

Sorry brian, but permanent IS permanent as long as you are in Singapore unless it has changed and I'm not aware of it. In fact, the re-entry permit is only good for 5 years now. But you do NOT need a REP to stay in Singapore as a PR. However IF you want to leave Singapore you DO need a re-entry permit to come back into the country, but if you never leave, it's not required to be maintained. As noted elsewhere, I went for 15 months without a re-entry permit.

If it has changed, give me the link as I hate havin' egg on me face!

[brian_singapore]

Sorry brian, but permanent IS permanent as long as you are in Singapore unless it has changed and I'm not aware of it. In fact, the re-entry permit is only good for 5 years now. But you do NOT need a REP to stay in Singapore as a PR. However IF you want to leave Singapore you DO need a re-entry permit to come back into the country, but if you never leave, it's not required to be maintained. As noted elsewhere, I went for 15 months without a re-entry permit.

If it has changed, give me the link as I hate havin' egg on me face!

I may not have understood the distinction with the re-entry pass and this may have contributed to my miss-understanding, but I thought I'd read a number of posts stipulating that the PR had to be renewed every 10 years. From what I understood it was more or less automatic as long as you lived and worked in Singapore but was still a necessary step?

[sundaymorningstaple]

Only if you plan on leaving Singapore. So, realistically speaking it is required, but now only for 5 year intervals. I had one of the last 10 year REPs. These are no longer available. But as said, realistically, not technically, speaking, it required but technically, if you never leave Singapore, e.g., Batam, or JB, then you don't need it after you have the first one. But if you want to go shopping in JB or play golf in Batam you need it.

[PNGMK]

Only if you plan on leaving Singapore. So, realistically speaking it is required, but now only for 5 year intervals. I had one of the last 10 year REPs. These are no longer available. But as said, realistically, not technically, speaking, it required but technically, if you never leave Singapore, e.g., Batam, or JB, then you don't need it after you have the first one. But if you want to go shopping in JB or play golf in Batam you need it.

I back up SMS. I too had one of the last 10 year REP's (which, in retrsospect, was given because I qualified both on PTS and Family Ties). And yes, I have many friends here who have had to stay IN Singapore until they've been in a good enough position job wise to get their REP. I've also had friends who said stuff it - taken their CPF and that overseas job offer.

[brian_singapore]

So clearly I failed to understand the distinction between the PR and the REP. However the technical vs. the realistic still goes to my point on how people may receive a bit of a mixed message over its permanency. In order to maintain the privileges associated with a PR you need to re-apply every 5 (not 10 now) years. These are the same privileges I'd need to continue in my job and remain a contributing member of society...

And again, most countries I've worked a PR is a PR. You either have it or its been revoked.

[PNGMK]

Brian,

Australia and NZ PR's are almost the same. To be able to re-enter the country after 5 years or so... you need to have a re-entry permit of some sort. The US green card has similar rules I think.

PNGMK

[sundaymorningstaple]

Same here as well. The only difference is if you want to travel "outside" of Singapore you must have a REP. Otherwise, with or without the REP, your benefits IN Singapore are the same. Not getting a REP before you leave the country is just signaling the Government that you no longer want your PR, otherwise, you could just go around the world and never come back, collecting PR's like the sub-continentals try to do. This way, the population numbers are kept somewhat accurate over a 5 years span. Most countries don't have space limitations like Singapore does, so there has to be some sort of mechanism to reduce the potential of have 100K PRs living outside of Singapore and then all coming back at once and overloading the infrastructure more than it already is.

[zzm9980]

Brian,

Australia and NZ PR's are almost the same. To be able to re-enter the country after 5 years or so... you need to have a re-entry permit of some sort. The US green card has similar rules I think.

PNGMK

The US one really is quite permanent. It expires every 10 years, but it's akin to just getting a new drivers license. Photo update and such.

The re-entry permit in the US is something different. Greencard holders are allowed to leave the US for upto 6 months at a time. The intention is that their leave is temporary, not permanent. If you re-enter after 6 months you'll have to convince the immigration officer you never moved your residence outside of the US. The re-entry permit just gives you up to 2 years to do the same.

[brian_singapore]

Those are also examples of 'all or nothing' schemes. All PR schemes have residency requirements (and should). One of the issues in my home country is immigration control doesn't keep a record of when someone leaves the country so has no idea if you've been gone for a day or a year. This has left our PR system open to abuse by individuals who set up a lease / address and then don't come back until it's time to apply for citizenship.

In the case of the US, the 'renewal' after 10 years is actually the next stage in the process. When completed the residency requirements change - you are no longer subject to travel restrictions (i.e. the 6 month restriction on being out of the country). Renewals after this stage are mechanical and as much about keeping your ID cards up to date as anything else.

So to be clear: I wasn't criticizing the system Singapore has put in place to evaluate potential citizens. I really don't have a problem with the bar any particular country sets for those who which to immigrate and become citizens. These people are after all applying and it is up the country to put a system in place to evaluate who it does and doesn't wish to admit. And up to the applicants to decide if the process is acceptable to their circumstances and worth pursuing.

I was just pointing out the mixed messages and I'd happily point this out to any other country employing a similar system.

[zzm9980]

All PR schemes have residency requirements (and should). One of the issues in my home country is immigration control doesn't keep a record of when someone leaves the country so has no idea if you've been gone for a day or a year.

Really? So how do they catch PRs that stayed out too long on entry? Are all of those people voluntarily saying they were gone? I was always under the assumption the airline reported that you left when you exited the country.