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www.jobsbank only for Citizens ?

Discuss about getting a well paid job or career advancement. Ask about salaries, expat packages, CPF & taxes for expatriate.

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Wd40
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Postby Wd40 » Fri, 26 Sep 2014 10:23 am

Girl_Next_Door wrote:
Sergei82 wrote:I was just starting to think that it will add value on becoming PR. Was I wrong?


To change a job, yes. To be top management in a bank/FI, I would say it would be a lot harder.



Easy, apply for citizenship. If you are in the top management its easier. Piyush Gupta CEO of DBS got citizenship.

When the opportunity is that good, I think its ok to lose your citizenship just like what Edwardo Saverin of FB did. He is now the 6th richest in Singapore with a networth of only 4.2B$. If he stayed in the US, he would a lot poorer and his ranking wont even be in the top 100 :lol:

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 26 Sep 2014 10:53 am

Girl_Next_Door wrote:
JR8 wrote: I wonder if MAS have surveyed why these employers are not already doing so. After all hiring locals is much cheaper than hiring FT, so there must be a compelling reason.
Do you think they don't already know?


If the case for MNCs hiring locals at senior levels is compelling, why do you imagine they're not already doing it?

If your comment is cryptically suggesting that locals aren't qualified for such roles, but for political purposes MAS is forcing this through, then that's another matter; social engineering and a form of indirect corporate taxation. Cue MNCs heading for the exit...

I don't say that lightly. You have to understand the mobility of banking/finance business units and trading desks. For example: The Disaster-Recovery location for our Tokyo trading floor was here in SG. If there was something like a major earthquake, the entire operation could move here in the time it took to fly here.

Trading desks were constantly being relocated to where that overall business was most profitable, on the bottom-line. Desks going Tokyo>HK>SG and even back to Tokyo again, as regulations and taxes shifted.

Foreign companies here already have to work within a framework of quotas that regulate the amount of FT they can hire vs the proportion of locals. If they are now going to be forced to effectively promote the local quota beyond what the companies already see as fit and proper, I do not consider that a business-friendly policy, (rather I consider it an anti-business short-term political sop to try and appease the locals).

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Postby Strong Eagle » Fri, 26 Sep 2014 11:05 am

JR8 wrote:If the case for MNCs hiring locals at senior levels is compelling, why do you imagine they're not already doing it?

If your comment is cryptically suggesting that locals aren't qualified for such roles, but for political purposes MAS is forcing this through, then that's another matter; social engineering and a form of indirect corporate taxation. Cue MNCs heading for the exit...


I think it's pretty clear that there is insufficient senior level local talent in Singapore that can actually perform at an executive level. Otherwise, MNC's would not be paying the heavy economic penalties to bring in "foreign talent". Even LKY said as much... Singapore cannot thrive without expats.

Having said that, there are certainly locals capable of doing so, and they are few and far between.

I recall meetings with Singtel "senior managers"... useless, worthless meetings... because these people had no clue as to what they were actually supposed to be doing as senior executives.

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Postby Girl_Next_Door » Fri, 26 Sep 2014 11:26 am

From my perspective, there is a combination of factors:
1) Singapore govt wants to provide the impression that Singaporeans are given an opportunity to excel in Singapore. Hence, the pressure for Banks & FIs to have more Singaporeans on the top management. Don't forget, when is the next election. Its all about strategic planning.

2) Similar to (1), the Singapore govt is keen to bring back talents to Singapore. If you look around, there are very few excellent locals who can do a CEO or CFO job. There is also the perception that, because they are locals, they will get lower salary, compared to an expat who is doing the same role in Singapore. It will take some time, before a truly qualified Singaporean get paid the same kind of money an expat CEO/CFO is earning. Steps have to be put in place to move towards this direction.

3) While it is easy to say, if Singapore make itself less attractive or less business-friendly, banks/FIs can always take their business overseas. But, this is not what MAS is trying to do. They are merely "suggesting" and "encouraging". But, lets be realistic here. Whenever MAS issued a guidelines, you better have strong justifications if you don't plan to fully implement it, even though it is only a "guidelines". In reality, there are a lot of factors ranging from licensing, existing team in Singapore, relocating the entire business, clients, etc.

Essentially, the MAS is not saying, everyone must be Singaporean. However, there should be more Singaporeans. The question is of course, how many more" is considered sufficient. This will definitely be revolving, and it is also dependent on the size of the organizations as well. If there are 10 members on the Board, all expats currently, the question that will be asked would be, "Is it worthwhile to consider having 1 or 2 members who are Singaporean?"

If the business is large enough, it might be worthwhile to make this change. Now, the MAS would say, you can start with 1 or 2. In 5 years time, they would say the organization had done well with a few Singaporeans, maybe its time to have more Singaporeans on the Board. Again... this is done slowly and strategically.

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 26 Sep 2014 11:41 am

@GND
And if it's such a natural and constructive policy, why do they have to be forced to do it?

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Postby gailwynand » Fri, 26 Sep 2014 12:08 pm

Lot of false info in this thread.

- There is no requirement that the job be solely advertised on the jobs bank during the 14 day period. So if you are waiting 14 days to apply to a job on the jobs bank, rather than going and searching for it on the company's own recruiting site, you are really shooting yourself in the foot.

- Similarly there is no requirement that locals who apply on the jobs bank be hired first or put first in line for interviews. Some companies may be doing this as a matter of internal policy, or after a request from MOM, but there is no official requirement to this effect covering all firms.

- Also, by just looking at the jobs bank, you are missing opportunities at smaller firms or very highly compensated roles, both are exempted from the jobs bank.

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Postby Girl_Next_Door » Fri, 26 Sep 2014 12:21 pm

JR8 wrote:@GND
And if it's such a natural and constructive policy, why do they have to be forced to do it?


Did i say its a natural and constructive policy? I only said its a strategic planning, to please the Singaporeans.

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Postby Wd40 » Fri, 26 Sep 2014 1:02 pm

gailwynand wrote:Lot of false info in this thread.

- There is no requirement that the job be solely advertised on the jobs bank during the 14 day period. So if you are waiting 14 days to apply to a job on the jobs bank, rather than going and searching for it on the company's own recruiting site, you are really shooting yourself in the foot.

- Similarly there is no requirement that locals who apply on the jobs bank be hired first or put first in line for interviews. Some companies may be doing this as a matter of internal policy, or after a request from MOM, but there is no official requirement to this effect covering all firms.

- Also, by just looking at the jobs bank, you are missing opportunities at smaller firms or very highly compensated roles, both are exempted from the jobs bank.


All valid points. I agree, the jobsbank is just an additional tool to your all existing methods of job search.

The main value add of the jobs bank to us foreigners is those jobs that were earlier directly filled by hiring foreigners through referral, internal transfer , recruiters head hunting the candidates directly etc i.e. without making it to the company's job site or any other job sites, now come out in the open for everyone to see.

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Postby ecureilx » Sun, 28 Sep 2014 9:16 pm

JR8 wrote:I wonder if MAS have surveyed why these employers are not already doing so. After all hiring locals is much cheaper than hiring FT, so there must be a compelling reason.


hiring EP/SPass has benefits as I found out in an interview

the employer bluntly told me he is looking at me instead of a EP holder as his quota has been filled up, and when I casually picked his brain it came out, why he preferred EP holders

EP holders come on contracts and serve the full 2 year contract period which he lamented that locals or PRs don't.

I preserved my silence ...

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Postby ecureilx » Sun, 28 Sep 2014 9:20 pm

gailwynand wrote:Lot of false info in this thread.

- There is no requirement that the job be solely advertised on the jobs bank during the 14 day period. So if you are waiting 14 days to apply to a job on the jobs bank, rather than going and searching for it on the company's own recruiting site, you are really shooting yourself in the foot.
.


any EP application before the 14 days is up gets rejected, MOM has put in place processes to track if this was fulfilled

though there is no way for MOM to know if deserving local candidates were given fair chances. I guess they are addressing that by rejecting EPs by insisting on explanations from employers why they couldn't find a local candidate ..some hits more misses though ..

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Postby gailwynand » Sun, 28 Sep 2014 9:45 pm

ecureilx wrote:any EP application before the 14 days is up gets rejected, MOM has put in place processes to track if this was fulfilled

Yes, correct. And while the ad is up on the jobsbank, the employer can also be advertising on monster, linkedin, etc.

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Re:

Postby Wd40 » Fri, 20 Mar 2015 9:50 am

martincymru wrote:Yes, I saw the advertiser details hence I applied via other means.

I was just surprised that the website did not state "EP's need not apply" before you actually go to the trouble of logging in etc. with your Fin and Singpass.


I think somebody read this thread and now Job's bank doesn't show the employer name or the employer contact details.

Weird, how can someone apply for a job, if they dont know whom they are applying to? May be once you log in you can see the employer name.

This site is seriously monitored. If you want something to be done, just hint it on this forum, it will probably get done ;)

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Re: Re:

Postby ecureilx » Fri, 20 Mar 2015 10:00 am

Wd40 wrote:
martincymru wrote:Yes, I saw the advertiser details hence I applied via other means.

I was just surprised that the website did not state "EP's need not apply" before you actually go to the trouble of logging in etc. with your Fin and Singpass.


I think somebody read this thread and now Job's bank doesn't show the employer name or the employer contact details.

Weird, how can someone apply for a job, if they dont know whom they are applying to? May be once you log in you can see the employer name.

This site is seriously monitored. If you want something to be done, just hint it on this forum, it will probably get done ;)


the mailer that sends openings does include the employer name, and for some, "employer confidential' .. though once logged in, as you say, the name vanishes

maybe you are right, it may pop up once you click 'apply' :)



PS, as for monitoring .. ......... #-o #-o #-o

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Re: www.jobsbank only for Citizens ?

Postby Primrose Hill » Fri, 20 Mar 2015 11:07 am

ahhh the Fair Consideration Framework. JR8, UK has something similar. Its all neither here nor there really

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Re: www.jobsbank only for Citizens ?

Postby JR8 » Fri, 20 Mar 2015 11:12 am

Primrose Hill wrote:ahhh the Fair Consideration Framework. JR8, UK has something similar. Its all neither here nor there really


I'm not sure what you're quoting me on, something from last year?

What similar exists in the UK, I wasn't aware of such.
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