Singapore Expats Forum

Caste Systems, Segregation and Subjugation

Discuss about the latest news & interesting topics, real life experience or other out of topic discussions with locals & expatriates in Singapore.

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16514
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010
Location: K. Puki Manis

Postby JR8 » Sun, 07 Sep 2014 9:12 pm

proxymoron wrote:Indian Caste System itself is a ... pretext ... to deny basic human rights from almost half of their own countrymen. It is being followed for more than 2 millenia, which would make other atrocities like ... concentration camps ... look like new borns (at least in my books).


You suggest the Indian caste system, a sort of embedded class system - is a greater issue than the systematic genocide of 11 million men, women, and children? :o

They pack Dalit's off to gas chambers too go they?

[speechless]

User avatar
rajagainstthemachine
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2789
Joined: Sat, 24 Nov 2012
Location: Singapore

Postby rajagainstthemachine » Sun, 07 Sep 2014 9:42 pm

JR8 wrote:
proxymoron wrote:Indian Caste System itself is a ... pretext ... to deny basic human rights from almost half of their own countrymen. It is being followed for more than 2 millenia, which would make other atrocities like ... concentration camps ... look like new borns (at least in my books).


You suggest the Indian caste system, a sort of embedded class system - is a greater issue than the systematic genocide of 11 million men, women, and children? :o

They pack Dalit's off to gas chambers too go they?

[speechless]


Winston Churchill did something close to those lines in the Bengal famine of 1943.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943
To get there early is on time and showing up on time is late

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16514
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010
Location: K. Puki Manis

Postby JR8 » Sun, 07 Sep 2014 9:54 pm

rajagainstthemachine wrote:Winston Churchill did something close to those lines in the Bengal famine of 1943. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943


You'll have to elaborate. How was Churchill responsible for the weather in India? And how is bad weather akin to being sent to a gas chamber?

Was Churchill also responsible for the 'Indian famine of 1899–1900' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_famine_of_1899–1900. er... aged 25 at the time, so clearly guilty eh? :???:

User avatar
ecureilx
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 9283
Joined: Fri, 20 Aug 2010

Postby ecureilx » Sun, 07 Sep 2014 10:10 pm

JR8 wrote:
rajagainstthemachine wrote:Winston Churchill did something close to those lines in the Bengal famine of 1943. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943


You'll have to elaborate. How was Churchill responsible for the weather in India? And how is bad weather akin to being sent to a gas chamber?
:


this maybe the clue, I suspect

the lower class are those cleaning drainage, cobbler (extension of handling leather - low class work) ..

As in previous Bengal famines,
the highest mortality was not in previously
very poor groups, but among artisans and
small traders whose income vanished when
people spent all they had on food and did not
employ cobblers, carpenters, etc.


as to how low class are treated what is overlooked is, during ancient times, the lower class were governed by a different law, with severe punishments, vs upper class, for a start ...

User avatar
rajagainstthemachine
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2789
Joined: Sat, 24 Nov 2012
Location: Singapore

Postby rajagainstthemachine » Sun, 07 Sep 2014 11:23 pm

JR8 wrote:
rajagainstthemachine wrote:Winston Churchill did something close to those lines in the Bengal famine of 1943. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943


You'll have to elaborate. How was Churchill responsible for the weather in India? And how is bad weather akin to being sent to a gas chamber?

Was Churchill also responsible for the 'Indian famine of 1899–1900' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_famine_of_1899–1900. er... aged 25 at the time, so clearly guilty eh? :???:


He was "accused" of diverting and therefore denying food grains that were required during the famine.
Churchill's policies resulted in unwarranted deaths which were needless.
And I must point out there IS a huge debate about whether his policies were the ultimate cause or not, some of them seem to point the blame at Churchill.
This is one such article : http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/legacy/there ... india.html

and then there is one which disproves the above

http://www.winstonchurchill.org/learn/i ... been-worse
To get there early is on time and showing up on time is late

User avatar
rajagainstthemachine
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2789
Joined: Sat, 24 Nov 2012
Location: Singapore

Postby rajagainstthemachine » Sun, 07 Sep 2014 11:28 pm

ecureilx wrote:
JR8 wrote:You'll have to elaborate. How was Churchill responsible for the weather in India? And how is bad weather akin to being sent to a gas chamber?
:


this maybe the clue, I suspect

the lower class are those cleaning drainage, cobbler (extension of handling leather - low class work) ..

As in previous Bengal famines,
the highest mortality was not in previously
very poor groups, but among artisans and
small traders whose income vanished when
people spent all they had on food and did not
employ cobblers, carpenters, etc.


as to how low class are treated what is overlooked is, during ancient times, the lower class were governed by a different law, with severe punishments, vs upper class, for a start ...


1.define ancient times? Indian history is quite Ancient.
:wink:

2. Artisans and small traders don't quite fall into the lower castes are considered upper caste. and yes someone like a cobbler aka leather worker would be a lower caste, just like how it was in the middle ages in Europe and elsewhere.
The caste was usually decided on profession.
To get there early is on time and showing up on time is late

User avatar
zzm9980
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6837
Joined: Wed, 06 Jul 2011
Location: Once more unto the breach

Postby zzm9980 » Sun, 07 Sep 2014 11:29 pm

rajagainstthemachine wrote:
you got a point man!
Image


No idea who this is (I assume one of those india "God Men"), but this is exactly how I imagine you looking. But maybe 5-10 years younger. :D

User avatar
zzm9980
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6837
Joined: Wed, 06 Jul 2011
Location: Once more unto the breach

Postby zzm9980 » Sun, 07 Sep 2014 11:31 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:The bigger the breast the higher the tax? :shock:


How does one become an auditor? :cool:

User avatar
rajagainstthemachine
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2789
Joined: Sat, 24 Nov 2012
Location: Singapore

Postby rajagainstthemachine » Sun, 07 Sep 2014 11:35 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
rajagainstthemachine wrote:you got a point man!


No idea who this is (I assume one of those india "God Men"), but this is exactly how I imagine you looking. But maybe 5-10 years younger. :D


this man is Sri Sri Ravi Shankar
http://www.artofliving.org/in-en/srisri

and you are not far away from the truth about my appearance, ask SMS and squirrel lol
To get there early is on time and showing up on time is late

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16514
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010
Location: K. Puki Manis

Postby JR8 » Mon, 08 Sep 2014 10:07 am

rajagainstthemachine wrote:
JR8 wrote:You'll have to elaborate. How was Churchill responsible for the weather in India? And how is bad weather akin to being sent to a gas chamber?

Was Churchill also responsible for the 'Indian famine of 1899–1900' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_famine_of_1899–1900. er... aged 25 at the time, so clearly guilty eh? :???:


He was "accused" of diverting and therefore denying food grains that were required during the famine.
Churchill's policies resulted in unwarranted deaths which were needless.
And I must point out there IS a huge debate about whether his policies were the ultimate cause or not, some of them seem to point the blame at Churchill.
This is one such article : http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/legacy/there ... india.html

and then there is one which disproves the above

http://www.winstonchurchill.org/learn/i ... been-worse



There are a few things you need to be clear about. The BBC is a ghastly left-wing/right-on/right-think/fashionable-liberal-platitude-spewing/victim-group/metropolitan/reverse-discrimination kind of place*. [That's generally accepted in the UK, but I have friends who have also worked there who have told me]. All funded directly by the UK taxpayer, so they need make no effort to provide what viewers might like, never mind share their views, as the BBC will always exist what ever they do.

How many global news outlets have a website that tracks it's inherent bias? The BBC does, and note the quotes section, all from BBC insiders ... all 'fessing up.
http://biasedbbc.org/quotes-of-shame/

Examples:
-----------------------
[i]"The BBC is “a publicly-funded urban organisation with an abnormally large proportion of younger people, of people in ethnic minorities and almost certainly of gay people, compared with the population at large”
Last edited by JR8 on Fri, 12 Sep 2014 5:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
proxymoron
Regular
Regular
Posts: 99
Joined: Sat, 15 Oct 2011

Postby proxymoron » Mon, 08 Sep 2014 10:13 am

JR8 wrote:You suggest the Indian caste system, a sort of embedded class system - is a greater issue than the systematic genocide of 11 million men, women, and children? :o

They pack Dalit's off to gas chambers too go they?

[speechless]


Well, caste system also does include men, women and children. They were not considered worthy of keeping the count of, so unfortunately there are no official accounts on the body count (if that defines the intensity of the atrocity committed)

And what baffles me is the selective blindness of white west, when it comes to anything other than holocaust. 85million people died in the World War II, including 2million Indians. 200k people were burnt to ashes in a minute by the atomic bomb, something which affected those who were even yet to be born. Still the western media thinks that it was all about holocaust and 6million jews by the "RACIST" nazi Germany.

80years of slavery on blacks in US, 3000 years of slavery on Dalits in India.. am I suggesting that these are greater issues than Nazi camps? Yes I am.
Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.

User avatar
rajagainstthemachine
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2789
Joined: Sat, 24 Nov 2012
Location: Singapore

Postby rajagainstthemachine » Mon, 08 Sep 2014 10:33 am

[quote="JR8"]


There are a few things you need to be clear about. The BBC is a ghastly left-wing/right-on/right-think/fashionable-liberal-platitude-spewing/victim-group/metropolitan/reverse-discrimination kind of place*. [That's generally accepted in the UK, but I have friends who have also worked there who have told me]. All funded directly by the UK taxpayer, so they need make no effort to provide what viewers might like, never mind share their views, as the BBC will always exist what ever they do.

How many global news outlets have a website that tracks it's inherent bias? The BBC does, and note the quotes section, all from BBC insiders ... all 'fessing up.
http://biasedbbc.org/quotes-of-shame/

Examples:
-----------------------
[i]"The BBC is “a publicly-funded urban organisation with an abnormally large proportion of younger people, of people in ethnic minorities and almost certainly of gay people, compared with the population at large”
To get there early is on time and showing up on time is late

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16514
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010
Location: K. Puki Manis

Postby JR8 » Mon, 08 Sep 2014 10:43 am

proxy moron wrote:Well, caste system also does include men, women and children. They were not considered worthy of keeping the count of, so unfortunately there are no official accounts on the body count (if that defines the intensity of the atrocity committed)


What 'body count'? And anyway India inflicted the caste system on itself. And it still has it. So as they say, 'Doctor, heal thyself'.

proxy moron wrote:And what baffles me is the selective blindness of white west, when it comes to anything other than holocaust.


Why does it baffle you? There are several monuments in Central London to the Indian (and Ghurka) regiments that fought in Europe (etc) in WW2. It's no secret to us, indeed it's a thing that is rightly celebrated.

proxy moron wrote:200k people were burnt to ashes in a minute by the atomic bomb, something which affected those who were even yet to be born. Still the western media thinks that it was all about holocaust and 6million jews by the "RACIST" nazi Germany.


We know. We also know that Japan and Germany were collectively hell-bent on total world domination. I lived in Japan, and have had the whole 'atomic guilt trip' thing played out on me several times. I have lived in Germany and stood on the precise junction in Berlin that Hitler planned and intended as the centre-point of the future world: His future world. The atomic bombs were not dropped 'for fun' FFS, they were a last resort where nothing else was stopping the JPnese.

Your view that the western media think WW2 was all about the Holocaust is offensive. My father was enlisted and en-route to Singapore during WW2 when the war ended, and were 10s of thousands of others with him. There were entire regiments of British soldiers in India during WW2 (I have quite some knowledge/insight into this as I helped create a database of at least 30,000 British war graves in (then) India. Specifically, I was paid as a after-hours student-job, by a friend of a friend whose project it was, to create a database from her written records made in Indian military graveyards).

proxy moron wrote:]80years of slavery on blacks in US, 3000 years of slavery on Dalits in India.. am I suggesting that these are greater issues than Nazi camps? Yes I am.


And despite it being the 21st century, you still haven't resolved your issues of the caste system, not least the Dalits. Call yourself a 'modern nation', your society (in this regard) resembles something more akin to the 1700s. What are you doing about it, apart from still playing the blame-game?

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16514
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010
Location: K. Puki Manis

Postby JR8 » Mon, 08 Sep 2014 11:05 am

rajagainstthemachine wrote:Why is this suddenly making news? it was because India recently celebrated its Independence Day and people have to be reminded about British "atrocities"


Well quite, the people need a sideshow and a bogey-man. Why despite decades of glorious socialism the SubContinent is as far as ever from reaching it's potential :roll:

User avatar
nakatago
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8333
Joined: Tue, 01 Sep 2009
Location: Sister Margaret’s School for Wayward Children
Contact:

Postby nakatago » Mon, 08 Sep 2014 11:10 am

I don't care at this point who has the biggest butthurt but people, please, watch out for your quoted texts; the forum format only allows word wrapping up to a certain width and us moderators can do nothing except trim down quotes.

Oddly enough, it's already on wiktionary: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/butthurt
Last edited by nakatago on Mon, 08 Sep 2014 11:18 am, edited 2 times in total.


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “General Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests