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This is what happens when a dependent male gives up PR

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ecureilx
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Re: This is what happens when a dependent male gives up PR

Postby ecureilx » Fri, 05 Sep 2014 9:18 pm

Mi Amigo wrote:]
I thought exit permits were generally not given for tertiary education (possibly medicine is an exception to that?). The sensible thing (IMHO) would have been to serve his NS first and then head to university. He'd have been a lot more mature and would probably have got more out of the university experience too..


I meant once the kid reaches a certain age, restrictions start to kick in, including bond, and travel restrictions (SG had a two passport system before, one for travel to Malaysia only, primarily for NS men) so either comply or cancel PR, is the solution.

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Postby Wd40 » Fri, 05 Sep 2014 9:28 pm

He said he is a Singaporean and wife is PR. So I am assuming he is a "true blue" Singaporean. I cant imagine, he got citizenship for himself while leaving out his wife and child out. If he was so smart, he would have left his child out of PR, altogether. I know so many people( Indians) who left out their male sons from the PR application, in 2008 and they got their PRs.

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 05 Sep 2014 9:33 pm

Brilliant... all SGn teens are prepared to be battle hardened. GRRR! :o

Meanwhile lets give the plum 6-figure job to an FT who is life-hardened.

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Postby ecureilx » Fri, 05 Sep 2014 9:58 pm

Wd40 wrote:He said he is a Singaporean and wife is PR. So I am assuming he is a "true blue" Singaporean. I cant imagine, he got citizenship for himself while leaving out his wife and child out. If he was so smart, he would have left his child out of PR, altogether. I know so many people( Indians) who left out their male sons from the PR application, in 2008 and they got their PRs.


what if father was first Generation SC? only SMS can confirm if the father went through NS!!

Years ago you can do it, i.e one parent becomes SC and the other stays PR, till the flood of new immigrants insisted on doing it for other reasons.

and atleast one member here in this board is a PR, for loooong time, while the spouse is SC :P :P :P

funny thing is, not all, but a fair lot of mixed marriage kids did NS, but not in Army, or such tough places, but in Police, SCDF and the likes where they can be home for weekend ...

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 05 Sep 2014 10:38 pm

Wd40 wrote:Mi Amigo, we are talking about a "Singaporean" father here, who has himself gone through the NS system. He didn't think it was worth wasting 2 years of his child on NS. How come when he has had the NS experience himself and like you have said he would have become more mature, got more out of the university etc etc, dawn upon him? Same case with plenty of Singaporeans who have gone through the NS system and still crib about it?

I would just say, there is no right or wrong. You win some you lose some. Yours and other expats here who are preaching that NS is worth it is a "half glass full" approach. The Singaporeans and the PRs who crib about it is a "half glass empty" approach.


Where did I say that. Wd40, PLEASE, start reading for context instead of for something rant about. You are making yourself look rather foolish a lot lately.

I never said the boy's father had done NS, nor did I say the father was a born Singaporean. (He was born in Perak and became a citizen but wasn't required to do NS as a lot of Malaysians were during the time of partition.)

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 05 Sep 2014 10:40 pm

And before you go off half-cocked again, I said Malaysians not Malays. There is a difference. I've been a PR for almost a quarter of a century and married to a SC. There are a lot of us around.

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Postby Wd40 » Fri, 05 Sep 2014 11:11 pm

Ok my bad. You mentioned card carrying PAP member, that made me somehow assume he is a true blue. My bad.

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Postby ecureilx » Sat, 06 Sep 2014 1:15 am

Wd40 wrote:Ok my bad. You mentioned card carrying PAP member, that made me somehow assume he is a true blue. My bad.


and if you meant second / third generation to be known as true blue, not so...

you don't need to be 'true blue', to even be an MP or even Minister ;)

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Postby x9200 » Sat, 06 Sep 2014 10:19 am

Ok, addressing one point WD40 made some 3 pages ago, I am a father of a 3yo PR boy so if everything goes its natural way he will likely need to do NS. Assuming our future will be still in Singapore my only concern about NS is my son's safety. For that reason alone I would probably like him to avoid it.
Having said that I see some multiple benefits of serving NS and I don't think this 1-2y career delay would have any significant impact on his professional and wealth development, especially if he stays in Singapore.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 06 Sep 2014 11:24 am

I was more worried about my son's skateboarding than I ever was about his NS. But then, I know that, if one isn't a total doof, it's hard to get hurt in peacetime military service. Give him a driver's license and a motorcycle at 17 and see which is more likely to produce a bad outcome.

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Postby x9200 » Sat, 06 Sep 2014 11:49 am

Actually IIRC these were some of your posts that made me worried but I don't think I would manage to find them right now within reasonable time.
From them I've got this impression that this is sort of like running a mass of anonymous people nobody cares too much about through some rarely populated but still a mine field. You know, a cannon feeder preschool.

But if this is what you just wrote above and as in any typical NS then I have no worries.

Could be I misunderstood something.

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Postby ecureilx » Sat, 06 Sep 2014 12:55 pm

x9200 wrote:...


safety ?

well, a former PR shipped his son to USA, to avoid NS, and the small fellow had to enrol in National Guard to improve his chances of Citizenship, and guess what happened ?

since the Big Green Machine decided the new recruit is best placed to blend in with the natives of South west Asia, got trained in Pashtu, and before he knew he was in Afghanistan! and facing snipers ... the real ones that kill and had to see buddies KIA... but had to do his hearts and Minds programs per the wishes of the higher ups!!!

of course he was given citizenship upon completing his tour of Duty!!!

NS in Singapore ?

must be the safest place to do army service ..

and when Singapore contributed to any international war effort they were far from danger, except the rarest instances which were by regular forces, not NS men!!
Last edited by ecureilx on Sat, 06 Sep 2014 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby JR8 » Sat, 06 Sep 2014 12:57 pm

RATM:
‘Indian parents want their kids to follow the standard conveyor system that they went through as kids themselves. [Edit]... another exam to be an engineer or a doctor ...’

Funnily enough there is a parallel within Jewish culture in England, and it spawned a decades long running joke. A parent introduces his/her son to guests, not by name, but with ‘This is my son the doctor’. Rather than engineer, the 2nd possibility would be ‘My son the dentist’, but that was about the limits of acceptability.

---

It is striking for me to read the virtues apparently gained from national service; not least their similarity to those usually gained from being packed off to an English boarding school. Discipline, learning from a young age to deal with and live with others, a network of friends for life. On top of a focused curriculum, it sets you up well for your future.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 06 Sep 2014 1:05 pm

Almost, JR8, but not quite. The school network is good, no doubt, buy I daresay, you school mates wouldn't throw them selves in front of a bullet for you. Don't get me wrong, as I said earlier, the School Tie network is damned strong and will get you the intro's, but you are more or less on your own from that point on. The military network will give you the job. Keeping it, of course, is up to you. Of course, in a lot of instances, we are talking about two distinctly different classes of people but there is a lot of mixing at the upper echelons as well. The School Tie network is usually from the pampered, silver spoon class, while the military is predominately from the "I worked for it class" or, like some of us, "My word is my bond and I've got your back" if you know what I'm sayin'

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 06 Sep 2014 1:19 pm

x9200 wrote:Actually IIRC these were some of your posts that made me worried but I don't think I would manage to find them right now within reasonable time.
From them I've got this impression that this is sort of like running a mass of anonymous people nobody cares too much about through some rarely populated but still a mine field. You know, a cannon feeder preschool.

But if this is what you just wrote above and as in any typical NS then I have no worries.

Could be I misunderstood something.


No. No misunderstanding at all. Slightly out of context, maybe. Yes, NS is dangerous. IF you are a complete doof! Accidents can and do happen. But the incidence of this is miniscule compared to, say, giving every 17 year old a 900cc bike. More would kill themselves on the bikes during that 24 months than would be killed by the SAR-21. My point is the benefits outweigh the negatives and while I hate war!, I do believe every male should undergo military training for a number of reasons, most of which I've said before. So given the options, in my case, in order to give my son the training which I feel he needs, I would rather he took the safest option. Singapore is famous for walking the fence when it comes to antagonizing other countries and will ONLY SEND THEIR MILITARY IN A BEHIND THE LINES FUNCTION or in a disaster relief type of operation or war games (5 power defense pact). The closest they have ever come to front lines is in a Military Field Hospital type of function or offshore patrol. Yes, something untoward can happen but not likely. Much better to get a whiff of a war zone than a taste or a full on meal of it! The adrenalin rush of fear is good for learning, especially if the actual probability of harm is remote at best.

Additionally, if something untoward should happen here in Singapore, I'd at least want my son have a clue how to protect himself, his girlfriend or wife and my sorry old arse, and not just pray somebody from some other country comes here to save them. Of course, should that happen, he really wouldn't have to protect me, as I'd be on the front lines as well. But that's me.


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