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This is what happens when a dependent male gives up PR

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ecureilx
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Postby ecureilx » Fri, 05 Sep 2014 11:47 am

Wd40 wrote:When you become a parent of a baby boy, you will probably be in a better position to comment. I mean these things are easy to say when you are not affected. Its when you go through it is when you really understand. I can see why SMS is so passionate about talking about stuff like this. His kids have gone through NS.

Its like stock markets. Its easy to comment about buy, sell etc when you dont hold the position. Its when you hold a position thats when your real behaviour comes out.


not to offend you but from what I have seen it is almost always people from Mother Land /Sub continent, who seem to dislike / speak vocally against NS!!! true story.

the others aren't so. or atleast not so vocal in expressing their hatred for NS.

PS, SMS served in the Army, so he has more understanding than just seeing his son serving NS!!!

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Postby Wd40 » Fri, 05 Sep 2014 12:03 pm

ecureilx wrote:
Wd40 wrote:When you become a parent of a baby boy, you will probably be in a better position to comment. I mean these things are easy to say when you are not affected. Its when you go through it is when you really understand. I can see why SMS is so passionate about talking about stuff like this. His kids have gone through NS.

Its like stock markets. Its easy to comment about buy, sell etc when you dont hold the position. Its when you hold a position thats when your real behaviour comes out.


not to offend you but from what I have seen it is almost always people from Mother Land /Sub continent, who seem to dislike / speak vocally against NS!!! true story.

the others aren't so. or atleast not so vocal in expressing their hatred for NS.

PS, SMS served in the Army, so he has more understanding than just seeing his son serving NS!!!


Yupp, not offended at all. :) I agree with you, people from sub continent/motherland also control/support their kids financially well into college tution fees more than others, so not surprising right.

Guess how this pie chart looks for an Indian family? 100% parents income/savings.

Image
Last edited by Wd40 on Fri, 05 Sep 2014 12:21 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Postby rajagainstthemachine » Fri, 05 Sep 2014 12:03 pm

^

@squirrel : Indian parents want their kids to follow the standard conveyor system that they went through as kids themselves.
kindergarten, then some tuitions, board exams at sixteen, more tuitions, write some exam to get into junior college, more tuitions, write another exam to be an engineer or a doctor then more tuitions write another exam go join some university abroad or work in IT and then one more exam to get that MBA, be a sad manager somewhere.
rinse and repeat.

anything outside of this box is difficult to comprehend. The thought of having a career in military, life sciences, art , ecology is all frowned upon and not considered a requirement.
The thinking that at the end of the National service you get your kid back who's now developed a sense of discipline, physical fitness and communal thinking is beyond logic to many.
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Postby Wd40 » Fri, 05 Sep 2014 12:15 pm

Its just the way they look at the cost v/s benefit. To each their own.

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Postby ecureilx » Fri, 05 Sep 2014 12:51 pm

rajagainstthemachine wrote:^

@squirrel : Indian parents want their kids to follow the standard conveyor system that they went through as kids themselves.
kindergarten, then some tuitions, board exams at sixteen, more tuitions, write some exam to get into junior college, more tuitions, write another exam to be an engineer or a doctor then more tuitions write another exam go join some university abroad or work in IT and then one more exam to get that MBA, be a sad manager somewhere.
rinse and repeat.

anything outside of this box is difficult to comprehend. The thought of having a career in military, life sciences, art , ecology is all frowned upon and not considered a requirement.
The thinking that at the end of the National service you get your kid back who's now developed a sense of discipline, physical fitness and communal thinking is beyond logic to many.


:D

and to WD40 as well!!! :D

but I don't get the part of Sub continentals going ballistic about NS, when some havent even got :married, there was a post here sometime ago ...

and another former colleague, as soon as he got his job he started ranting against NS, when he had just got married in Mumbai and, his wife's DP was rejected. all that didn't stop him getting agitated against NS

cannot make it!! :twisted:

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 05 Sep 2014 1:00 pm

This is probably why I like my son-in-law. He breaks the mold of the self-centered, abuse all systems, subcontinental (he's a former PR who is now a SC). His parents, who have been here for 20 years, are still PRs. He refused to take any of his parents money for his tertiary education, did his NS (they offered him OCS and he took it, becoming a captain out on P. Tekong as a training officer) they offered him Citizenship so he took it, got out, put himself through school by working part time and full time for a couple of years before finishing his education. (B.Sc, Masters & Ph.D. in Aeronautical Engrg - doing the Masters & Ph.D as a double). He's made his own way without the permanent apron strings. I admire one who does that, regardless where they are from. He's originally from Kerala. And yes, it chaffs the crap out of his parents as they know they have no leverage as he's made it without them. Worst thing for them is the fact that he's an only child and would have been totally spoiled had he allowed it.

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 05 Sep 2014 4:54 pm

ecureilx wrote: PS, SMS served in the Army, so he has more understanding than just seeing his son serving NS!!!


Get outta here!! I thought he was 'In the navy' if you know what I mean darling :twisted: :cool:

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Postby ScoobyDoes » Fri, 05 Sep 2014 5:43 pm

Wd40 wrote:Its just the way they look at the cost v/s benefit. To each their own.



It is quite often relationships formed during NS that bind through business. There is a benefit not quantifiable at most times.
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 05 Sep 2014 6:01 pm

Spot on ScoobyDoes!

The networks you form in the military, even a two year conscription, will last a lifetime. The numbnuts who you thought was going to do himself in out of clumsiness, that you always seems to be looking out for, may just be the high flying CEO of an MNC in 20 years time and you might be applying for a job when the connection is made and re-opened. I regret having needed to enlist during a war but I don't regret what I have learned and the networks I've made and expanded upon over the ensuing 40 years since then. The networks formed in the military are as strong if not stronger than the bonds made in an Ivy League school (Old Tie Network) as your lives often depended on each other.

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Postby bgd » Fri, 05 Sep 2014 6:16 pm

And NS provides some well needed life skills.

Think they should also open it up to the female of the species, it can only help.

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Re: This is what happens when a dependent male gives up PR

Postby Mi Amigo » Fri, 05 Sep 2014 7:13 pm

ecureilx wrote:
Wd40 wrote:
To avoid NS


not so, I believe, it may be the other way around, SMS may clarify.

to send any kid overseas in lieu of NS, when nearing NS age there are a lot of things to satisfy, including bond, and approval etc and failure of any will hurt the parents, and restrictions galore.

heard of Exit Permit for NS men?

easiest, as in this case, is/was to give up PR, than follow the process, I guess!!

I thought exit permits were generally not given for tertiary education (possibly medicine is an exception to that?). The sensible thing (IMHO) would have been to serve his NS first and then head to university. He'd have been a lot more mature and would probably have got more out of the university experience too.

There's an old expression that you can't put an old head on young shoulders, which is why we often hear about young people trying to get out of NS; but for his Singaporean father to encourage him to go down that path was, to put it mildly, short sighted.
Be careful what you wish for

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Re: This is what happens when a dependent male gives up PR

Postby JR8 » Fri, 05 Sep 2014 7:40 pm

Mi Amigo wrote:but for his Singaporean father to encourage him to go down that path was, to put it mildly, short sighted.


Why?

Now his horizons are 'The World -[minus]- Singapore', rather than the other way around. Who suggests this is a handicap of some form?

A loss? Hard to make up for in places of better life-long opportunity?

This is SGs nemesis, no longer having such a margin of virtue, that people no longer fear simply walking away from it.

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Postby Mi Amigo » Fri, 05 Sep 2014 8:52 pm

Well I think it was short sighted because the son could have had the world -[including]- Singapore, and not had the problem of the EP being rejected. That is a handicap for him right now.

He has lost the opportunity to work in Singapore, something he clearly wanted to do. And the lifelong opportunities would still have been available to him if he'd served his NS before going to university.
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Postby Wd40 » Fri, 05 Sep 2014 9:05 pm

Mi Amigo, we are talking about a "Singaporean" father here, who has himself gone through the NS system. He didn't think it was worth wasting 2 years of his child on NS. How come when he has had the NS experience himself and like you have said he would have become more mature, got more out of the university etc etc, dawn upon him? Same case with plenty of Singaporeans who have gone through the NS system and still crib about it?

I would just say, there is no right or wrong. You win some you lose some. Yours and other expats here who are preaching that NS is worth it is a "half glass full" approach. The Singaporeans and the PRs who crib about it is a "half glass empty" approach.

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Postby ecureilx » Fri, 05 Sep 2014 9:15 pm

Wd40 wrote:Mi Amigo, we are talking about a "Singaporean" father here, who has himself gone through the NS system. He didn't think it was worth wasting 2 years of his child on NS. How come when he has had the NS experience himself and like you have said he would have become more mature, got more out of the university etc etc, dawn upon him? Same case with plenty of Singaporeans who have gone through the NS system and still crib about it?

I would just say, there is no right or wrong. You win some you lose some. Yours and other expats here who are preaching that NS is worth it is a "half glass full" approach. The Singaporeans and the PRs who crib about it is a "half glass empty" approach.


one in favour of WD40's anti NS stance, or is it?



where did SMS say the father served NS?? did I miss it?


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