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Agencies putting offer letter on hold

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dicymoon
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Postby dicymoon » Tue, 02 Sep 2014 2:51 pm

Wd40: I don't understand how is my attitude judged here with the forum posts.???But if you think so, I take it positively..I never meant to show my attitude by asking questions in this forum... :???:

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 02 Sep 2014 4:45 pm

dicymoon, don't mind Wd40. He's had a case of the chapped-arse ever since he was rejected for PR and found out he's on the downsizing/outsourcing chopping block so you have to take most anything he said with a grain of salt. On second thought, a teaspoon of salt! :lol:

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Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 02 Sep 2014 8:21 pm

Wd40 wrote:Dicymoon, reading your 1st thread in the forum in which you asked whether EP is better or LoC is better, bank is better or Financial Institution is better, bank has IT environment or not. Your comments came across as very naive and someone with an attitude problem.

I am sure you attitude also shows up in the interview process. I hope you now realize that as a foreigner here, that too as a trailing spouse, you need to be more humble than that.


Get a life! This person is asking valid questions, trying to understand her options. You have added zero to her understanding.

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Postby PNGMK » Tue, 02 Sep 2014 9:17 pm

Soldier on OP and ignore WD40. He's an unhappy little brown man (as they call themselves on Reddit).

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Postby dicymoon » Wed, 03 Sep 2014 8:16 am

Thanks people!! btw I did some research and found out that the agency did not post an ad for the job vacancy at least for 14 days and without that they were trying to go for approval from the client.I think this might be the reason that the client asked us to wait for 2 weeks..

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Postby brian_singapore » Sat, 06 Sep 2014 5:36 pm

PNGMK wrote:
dicymoon wrote:But the reason for resignation was that agency asked me to produce the relieving letter from old company. I tried my best to get that in a week's time and when i produced that they told that my offer is not confirmed due to some illogical reason. They are still asking me to wait after a lot of long discussion and argument.


I've never had that happen to me. I'd have seriously considered not moving forward if asked that.


This is a stunning request and I've never heard of this.

I also would have refused.

Incidently, it's pretty normal for a large company to take 2 weeks to issue a written offer after a verbal offer has been agreed. But never ever resign until you've signed, returned it and completed the background checks that come with it's acceptance.

Brian

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Postby Wd40 » Sat, 06 Sep 2014 7:47 pm

dicymoon wrote:Thanks people!! btw I did some research and found out that the agency did not post an ad for the job vacancy at least for 14 days and without that they were trying to go for approval from the client.I think this might be the reason that the client asked us to wait for 2 weeks..


If you think that is the reason, you can check this site, if they have posted the ad. Also you can check how many people have applied to the position. Pray that no Singaporean/PR has applied or those that have applied are not good enough.

https://www.jobsbank.gov.sg/

Good luck!

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Postby Wd40 » Sat, 06 Sep 2014 7:56 pm

I have been monitoring the jobsbank for the last one month that its up for my skill area in IT and I find that the number of Singaporeans/PRs who have applied is like really really low, like may be 6 people max for a position that is open since 1 month. Either the jobsbank is still not widely known by Singaporeans or that there really aren't enough Singaporeans/PRs to fill tech jobs.

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Postby brian_singapore » Sun, 07 Sep 2014 10:34 am

Wd40 wrote:I have been monitoring the jobsbank for the last one month that its up for my skill area in IT and I find that the number of Singaporeans/PRs who have applied is like really really low, like may be 6 people max for a position that is open since 1 month. Either the jobsbank is still not widely known by Singaporeans or that there really aren't enough Singaporeans/PRs to fill tech jobs.


I read about your run of bad luck earlier in the thread. So firstly, my condolences. I found myself returning to my home country in January 2009 just as the fall-out of the 2008 financial crisis was gaining steam. Nothing knocks the self-esteem and self-confidence as much as living on your savings with little in the way of job prospects while pounding the pavement looking for work. But then, suddenly you'll get the right interview of the right job and all of that will change. The trick (or exceptionally hard part) is to maintain a positive attitude.

Secondly there aren't enough qualified senior IT people in the world. I have as much trouble filling positions here as I have in any other country. This is the message the new scheme with the job bank is sending to you, the government and the local populace. Nothing new, but now comes with a reasonable amount of objectivity and a mechanism to re-assure citizens they aren't being short-changed in the process. Eventually they will start to recognize they need foreigners as much as every other country to remain competitive. The second impact is (some) local citizens really will have first crack at jobs they are qualified for. To be blunt this is how it should be for citizens in their native country. This in turn will start to alleviate all of the concerns around foreigners taking local jobs and start to open all of the opportunities back up as everyone comes to grips with the plain fact their just aren't enough qualified locals.

Thirdly the job bank is providing you with a great job-hunting tool... all of those positions that have so few applicants are posted publicly on company websites; which means you have a single central location to pull all of the applicable postings and then start applying directly.

In the short-term this may be small consolation to yourself and your personal circumstances, but in the long-term will lead back to the same opportunities that brought you to Singapore in the first place.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 07 Sep 2014 12:18 pm

Or will slam the door permanently. Which is what I fear for a lot of EP holders who ARE, simply put, replaceable by locals and it will put a brake on those foreign HR practitioners who hire only their own to the exclusion of the locals. I'd say at least 50% of the EP holders in Singapore easily fall into this category.

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Postby brian_singapore » Sun, 07 Sep 2014 1:24 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Or will slam the door permanently. Which is what I fear for a lot of EP holders who ARE, simply put, replaceable by locals and it will put a brake on those foreign HR practitioners who hire only their own to the exclusion of the locals. I'd say at least 50% of the EP holders in Singapore easily fall into this category.


I should preface any post I make on this kind of thing with the disclaimer that my visibility and experience is restricted to my own little microcosm - senior level IT (with a minor in banking technology).

I'd go further and say likely 90%+ could be replaceable by locals. But it's a numbers game. The question is not 'is there a suitably qualified local who could do the job advertised (and is available)'. The question is 'are there enough suitably qualified locals (who are available) who could do all of the jobs'.

I'd hazard the answer to the first question is yes, the answer to the second is not by a long-shot.

And there is a far more insidious issue that may or may not be on SG's radar. The pool of 'suitably qualified locals' is going to get smaller as time goes on. My department is ~25 people who are all very senior. Other then 2 support staff, all of them are senior level+ managers. This team supports another 200+ vendor staff who comprise our entry level, mid-level and mid-senior level staff. These vendor staff pre-dominantly sit in China and India. Those that sit in Singapore are the small percentage of Chinese and Indian nationals placed on site by the vendors to manage their offshore staff.

There is no longer a pipeline available in our organization to hire entry level (or even mid-level staff) and grow them to the senior level. The future pool of 'qualified locals' is only going to continue to shrink as the avenues for them to gain the skills and progress in their careers are in decline.

The question is how to facilitate and recruit the top end of the global talent pool is a debate that is playing out in most of the developed countries across the world and most countries have some form of program in place to recruit and retain senior people. That's not to say in the shorter term or from time to time that different countries who are grappling with this issue aren't going to flip back and forth between tightening and loosening the restrictions. But in the long term I think as a general rule borders will be more open then they are today. Caveated with Singapore has possibly the most relaxed visa regime in the world.

Organizations that deliberately discriminate and only hire there 'own kind' is a different problem and such organizations should quickly have their access to EPs (or any other WP) revoked as well as a warning that further renewals will be denied.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 07 Sep 2014 3:43 pm

OH, I agree with you 100%, but as you are well aware of, the Gahment now only operates in knee-jerk fashion as they are no longer calling the shots now that the naysayers have found their voice on social media. I fear to much damage will be done and the road to recovery may well disappear as the MNC's pack their bags an move to their neighbour where they can get the help they need in the quantities they want, be they local OR imported talent. Sadly, the opposition caught the PAP off guard and they have been operating in knee-jerk fashion every since. It's most assuredly a numbers game, what with the aging population and dwindling TFR. It they want to stay viable, they have no choice but to fill up the numbers with FT (or even so called FT as NO native population can have all chief without any braves. The bell curve will see to that.

The problem, as I see it, is will they cotton to the fact soon enough? Before the Singapore cachet is totally demolished and they will not be able to get FTs as nobody will trust them any more. I see it as being damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they keep bringing them in at the moment, they could lose badly at the next GE in 2016, If they shut off the flow harder, they are going to lose the ability to attract talent in the future (provided there are any MNC's left to work for, here.

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Postby Mi Amigo » Sun, 07 Sep 2014 4:16 pm

Interesting times ahead methinks. To me it's not 'just' a numbers game; IME there is also an attitude problem in some cases. I've seen some (note my emphasis) Singaporean candidates with an overbearing sense of entitlement and an attitude that they would be God's gift to a company - but even though they might have the appropriate paper qualifications, they might not have the required experience for a particular role. In some cases a person can be employed at a more entry level and build their experience from there (I've hired people on that basis on many occasions), but that is not always a practical option.

Given the more 'hands on' approach of the gahmen, will employers be coerced into hiring people who are not really suitable for a position, thus making it even less attractive to add staff in Singapore vs. other locations?
Be careful what you wish for

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 07 Sep 2014 6:26 pm

^^ perxactly!
:-|

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Postby brian_singapore » Sun, 07 Sep 2014 9:55 pm

My comments on this being a numbers game referred to the problem statement of open positions vs. qualified locals - not enough qualified local Singaporeans to fill all of the open positions. The point being simply banning foreigners won't solve the problem. It wasn't a comment on the current political issue.

The political side just brings us back full-circle to my point that the current changes to hiring policy (which mild compared to what's already in place in many countries) are squarely aimed at addressing the malaise felt by the local populace at being displaced by foreigners. This is the government attempting to balance the needs of Singapore PTE with the concerns expressed by the local populace.

Clearly no one at this stage and predict whether these plus the additional policy / propaganda that will follow will be enough to stem the tide of ill-will. But clearly the government is trying to move forward without shutting the door.

Given the magnitude of the problem (the numbers game) I doubt Singapore will completely shut the door in a meaningful way in the long run. Even if the current government were replaced. In the short-run, how far the pendulum will swing is an open question in my mind.

I am, coincidently, an optimist. Perhaps I won't be after spending the next decade, or even the next 2 years here.
:D


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