Advice on job offer please

[bgd]

- Strange realisation. I don't recall the last time I met someone who lives here, who went to the Raffles simply to socialise, or for it's F+B. A couple of weddings here and there, tourist queueing up to get fleeced via a heritage lie, but otherwise, who goes there?

Me, quite often. Free bike parking underneath. But to socialise, never.

[nakatago]

- Strange realisation. I don't recall the last time I met someone who lives here, who went to the Raffles simply to socialise, or for it's F+B. A couple of weddings here and there, tourist queueing up to get fleeced via a heritage lie, but otherwise, who goes there?

These people would.

Background (do with the clicky).

[rajagainstthemachine]

I would anyday pick 90K SGD in Singapore v/s even 45K GBP in UK, as a neutral person from a 3rd country.

Personally I think it seems mad to give up 45k GBP in the UK (with no rental costs) to get "only" 7k SGD and have to cover accommodation here on one's own.

Could you try to bump that up to 10k citing unexpectedly-high rental costs?

I said as a neutral person from a 3rd country, which means renting in both places. Why do you guys forget about the tax? Singapore overall income tax on 90K SGD is just 4.2% so after tax it is 86k SGD. UK income tax and insurance on the 45K GBP is about 25% so you are left with 33K GBP

Rent 2k for a 2 bedroom HDB in Singapore and rent in a place like for example Manchester about 800 GBP per month. So your net disposable every month in Singapore after tax and rent is 5200SGD and in UK it is about 1950 GBP. Singapore wins

the Uk also has football, cricket, beer and bands UK wins hands down

[x9200]

Yes JR8, you have made the point, that the whole idea of moving to Singapore sort of grabs me (hence thats why I applied for the job in the first place), but there are other things needing some serious consideration after the initial excitement, especially getting to know the current offer is not that up to the standard and expectation.....

I guess I will have to come to SG and actually see which area to live, in terms of work commuting and the right balance of "blend-in" culturally...
Regarding getting home after a night/dining out, I reckon taking taxi could be a good option, heard that it is not that expensive?

I have some contacts in SG (saying contacts, thats like school mates who moved and settled in SG and I haven't been in touch for years, also some friends' friends...), so hopefully I can re-connect with them and extend the networking, but can only find out when I m physically in SG...

I don't know what kind of impression you get so far but this whole immersions is not so difficult at all and I feel JR8 exaggerates a bit with the worries. Having said that, If your social life is based on pubs (no drinker nor smoker so probably not?) type of interactions then the Lakeside area is not really good for it, but it is a nice area to live and it's not really short of anything. Depending on the condo you may find many Western expats around. Sure it will not be as many as in Holland Village or some other more central places but I think it is less about the quantity and afterall Singapore is small enough to meet up anywhere.
Locals are most of the time nice, interacting with them in coffee shops and eating places is pretty nice too and frankly more sh**ty looking place and more far from central areas often better eating and social experience. The annoying/difficult part of the immersion is very much independent of the location. It is about having some things done or sharing public space.

Besides, aiming at 2k5 rental budget you may be pretty much excluded from higher Western expat density places.

[JR8]

I feel JR8 exaggerates a bit with the worries.

I'm simply trying to provoke some thought and caution. I'm not saying that Lakeshore, Lakeside, or what ever it's called (this district I hadn't even heard of until this topic) is not going to work.

But what I'm cautioning against is agreeing a package and a housing budget, that restricts one to districts where you might feel isolated. You don't tfr here just to work (and live near work), you aim for a decent all-around experience.

When I got transferred down to SG the first time (from JP) I got knowingly stiffed by the hiring director on the offer; and I had to force through something equitable (only, at my later expense... that a**-h***). I didn't realise it at the time; comparing a Tokyo package to a SG package back in the dawn of the web-era was almost impossible. As a result I'm very sensitive re: newbies who might be at risk of selling themselves short.

[x9200]

Fair enough, but do you really think there is any immersion and isolation problem for any significant fraction of the expats regardless the place they live in Singapore? I found such assumption a bit strange. I landed myself alone right in the middle of CCK and for over a dozen of my Western colleagues that days and working with me there was perhaps one person who chose more expat frequented area. I really think it is not about the location.

[JR8]

Fair enough, but do you really think there is any immersion and isolation problem for any significant fraction of the expats regardless the place they live in Singapore? I found such assumption a bit strange. I landed myself alone right in the middle of CCK and for over a dozen of my Western colleagues that days and working with me there was perhaps one person who chose more expat frequented area. I really think it is not about the location.

If he can slot into a neighbourhood, with say his other Western colleagues, then fair enough (as you did). I'm cautioning against being culturally isolated... you know the 'token whitey' where some people stop in their tracks to stare blankly, and some babies spontaneously begin crying [both of which have and sometimes still do happen to me!].

[nakatago]

where some people stop in their tracks to stare blankly, and some babies spontaneously begin crying (both of which have and sometimes still do happen to me!).

I don't think that's because you're white.

[x9200]

Fair enough, but do you really think there is any immersion and isolation problem for any significant fraction of the expats regardless the place they live in Singapore? I found such assumption a bit strange. I landed myself alone right in the middle of CCK and for over a dozen of my Western colleagues that days and working with me there was perhaps one person who chose more expat frequented area. I really think it is not about the location.

If he can slot into a neighbourhood, with say his other Western colleagues, then fair enough (as you did). I'm cautioning against being culturally isolated... you know the 'token whitey' where some people stop in their tracks to stare blankly, and some babies spontaneously begin crying [both of which have and sometimes still do happen to me!].

Yes, I know what you mean but I think the whiteys are not the uncommon any longer* and this staring is generally with positive attitude. When I visited local coffee shops back in CCK they looked at me sort of positively surprised I was eating there.

On the other hand, you might have a good point if OP is a white female. There was something about salads and gym so with a bit of stereotyping this may be the case. The staring would be more intense and in some neighborhoods (the Lakeside is NOT one of them) not really comfortable.

*) in my condo (Bukit Batok) a few month ago one Malay teenager girl was shocked seeing my son who is very light blond. She asked me why he was like this.

[JR8]

I don't think that's because you're white.

Hang on maybe you're right, it could be my George Clooney looks

[curiousgeorge]

I say go for it, the experience is worth way more than any difference in salary.

And if you have yellow fever, even better

For reference, I moved here six years ago. I earned less than you before I came, and earned more than they are offering you on once I got here, and I found my standard of living to be comparable between the two countries.

But I work about 100 hours a week more than I did in the UK, but I never have to climb into a cold bed or shower

[hotandhumid]

I think the key question is whether taking up this new role in Singapore is going to allow him better future opportunities; be it within his current company or elsewhere (perhaps in Asia).

Regarding the financials, here is my take:

Expenses: these can be much easier in Singapore than in London if you can 'localise' your preferences to some extent. Otherwise, they will not be too different overall.

Taxes: income tax is minimal in Singapore, circa 5% effective at his salary. However, do note that no retirement savings is included. Then we need to ask if he will be missing much with his UK pension.

Salary: No harm asking for more citing additional expenses such as set-up costs, annual flights back home. They may say no to a structural raise, but they may agree to an incidental sign-on bonus.