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Advice on job offer please

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Tobe2015
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Advice on job offer please

Post by Tobe2015 » Sat, 30 Aug 2014 5:06 pm

Hi, I m currently working in the UK at around £42k, I have been made an offer to relocate (I applied for the job internally in the company) to Singapore with monthly salary of S$7k before tax, which works out S$91k per annum, there is no housing allowance provided but they do offer 1-off relocation expense (equivalent to 1 month salary) and 1 month temp accommodation.

So I m just wondering would that salary be good enough to maintain my living standard? Or should I be going back negotiate for more? I m single and would be looking to rent 1 or 2 bed condo on my own. Any advice would be of great help and very much appreciated.

Thanks~

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Post by taxico » Sat, 30 Aug 2014 7:24 pm

what is your living standard?

where do you stay? what sort of lifestyle do you lead? etc...
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Re: Advice on job offer please

Post by JR8 » Sat, 30 Aug 2014 8:20 pm

Tobe2015 wrote:Hi, I m currently working in the UK at around £42k, I have been made an offer to relocate (I applied for the job internally in the company) to Singapore with monthly salary of S$7k before tax, which works out S$91k per annum, there is no housing allowance provided but they do offer 1-off relocation expense (equivalent to 1 month salary) and 1 month temp accommodation.
So I m just wondering would that salary be good enough to maintain my living standard? Or should I be going back negotiate for more? I m single and would be looking to rent 1 or 2 bed condo on my own. Any advice would be of great help and very much appreciated.
Thanks~
My first impression is that it's a pretty sucky offer. My experience is that it's difficult to turn such into a decent offer, never mind a good one.

S$91k is about £44k. Do you think they're just aiming to move you at a 1-1 equivalent salary? Taxes will be lower here, but costs will be higher, especially regarding housing.

You need a cost of living adjustment table (aka 'COLA table') to get a general salary conversion factor between the UK and here. Read the FAQs or do a search on it.

Since you applied for the job/transfer, it's pretty clear they're not giving you anything like an ex-pat package, i.e. it's a 'Local package' offer.

What housing needs will you have, that will be your largest expense by far? You need to define and cost that to know whether the offer has any wings at all.

Refer to the two 'sticky' posts at the top of the topics list in this sub-forum, specifically 'Where should I/we live...' and 'Cost of living comparison'. You'll see others posters previously who have posted things along the lines of 'Is this package of X/Y, X +a/b' going to be enough, and how those discussions panned out.

Final word, if you're good at your job and you're bringing special skills to SG then you must be properly remunerated. If you applied for the position and are happy to 'get by' or use the move as a stepping stone, you should accurately define your minimum budget and hence required pay. If you come here and don't get paid enough, you might just have a pretty damned miserable time of it...

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Post by Wd40 » Sun, 31 Aug 2014 11:28 am

But then JR8, we all know how expensive the UK is and GBP 45k is peanuts, especially after tax.

Just read this on efinancial careers:

http://news.efinancialcareers.com/sg-en ... oor-redux/

I would anyday pick 90K SGD in Singapore v/s even 45K GBP in UK, as a neutral person from a 3rd country. But yeah as local from the UK, if you are asked to move to Singapore, you should expect slightly more. But then it depends on what choices the OP has.

For me to relocate from SG to UK, I would ask for the equivalent salary + the UK income tax uplift so for example; for 100K SGD I would expect atleast GBP 75K in the UK or else I am not moving.

Also, I know 75K GBP is difficult for perm jobs, but contract jobs pay that much more easily. I have friends in the UK who do contract jobs and tell me perm jobs there will lead you to poverty.

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Re: Advice on job offer please

Post by chris_pilgrim » Sun, 31 Aug 2014 1:02 pm

Tobe2015 wrote:..... there is no housing allowance provided but they do offer 1-off relocation expense (equivalent to 1 month salary) and 1 month temp accommodation.

..... I m single and would be looking to rent 1 or 2 bed condo on my own
You need to ask for more or negotiate for a housing allowance. You mentioned you'd like to rent a 1 / 2 bedroom condo... Don't forget you still have utilities (water, gas, electricity, telecom, condo maintenance fees) + miscellaneous to consider.

SGD7k before tax is pretty tricky.
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Re: Advice on job offer please

Post by Barnsley » Sun, 31 Aug 2014 2:23 pm

chris_pilgrim wrote:
Tobe2015 wrote:..... there is no housing allowance provided but they do offer 1-off relocation expense (equivalent to 1 month salary) and 1 month temp accommodation.

..... I m single and would be looking to rent 1 or 2 bed condo on my own
You need to ask for more or negotiate for a housing allowance. You mentioned you'd like to rent a 1 / 2 bedroom condo... Don't forget you still have utilities (water, gas, electricity, telecom, condo maintenance fees) + miscellaneous to consider.

SGD7k before tax is pretty tricky.
Agreed to live by yourself would be quite tricky despite the rentals dropping a little.

At the level they are coming at , is housing allowance likely?

It looks to me like a standard work transfer and at the salary stated they can have a very good time here if they are OK with sharing a place.
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Post by JR8 » Sun, 31 Aug 2014 4:22 pm

Wd40 wrote:I would anyday pick 90K SGD in Singapore v/s even 45K GBP in UK, as a neutral person from a 3rd country.
'Computer says no!'

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/co ... =Singapore

As you see average post-tax salaries are lower in SG than London but the cost of living is almost precisely the same.

The above also assumes a worst-case-scenario for the UK of selecting London, the single most expensive part. Pick a location outside of London and the UK cost of living would fall off a cliff.

The above also ignores that you're probably going to bring expensive expatty habits with you (the ones where the price difference is often largest). Such products are imported, and often subject to major 'sin taxes' so $$$. Bottle of wine, beer, cheese, milk, Euro-quality or sized clothes... and let's hope you never have call to buy a car here.

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Post by Wd40 » Sun, 31 Aug 2014 6:23 pm

JR8 wrote:
Wd40 wrote:I would anyday pick 90K SGD in Singapore v/s even 45K GBP in UK, as a neutral person from a 3rd country.
'Computer says no!'

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/co ... =Singapore

As you see average post-tax salaries are lower in SG than London but the cost of living is almost precisely the same.

The above also assumes a worst-case-scenario for the UK of selecting London, the single most expensive part. Pick a location outside of London and the UK cost of living would fall off a cliff.

The above also ignores that you're probably going to bring expensive expatty habits with you (the ones where the price difference is often largest). Such products are imported, and often subject to major 'sin taxes' so $$$. Bottle of wine, beer, cheese, milk, Euro-quality or sized clothes... and let's hope you never have call to buy a car here.
Well! The main thing is that the cost of living is the same, the fact that average disposable income in Singapore is lower than in London means that if you get the same after tax salary in Singapore that you get in London means that your disposable income is better in Singapore v/s the average and you are getting a better deal.

Look at Singapore v/s Manchester
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/co ... Manchester

Cost in Manchester is less than London by about 25% but look at disposable income its a whole lot lesser.

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Post by JR8 » Sun, 31 Aug 2014 7:51 pm

Hint: You don't have to live in London to work there, (same with NYC) and most people don't, you know, commuters.

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Post by Wd40 » Sun, 31 Aug 2014 9:29 pm

Ok. So how much would you say is a good salary in London/UK for someone earning say 100K SGD in Singapore?
Last edited by Wd40 on Sun, 31 Aug 2014 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by JR8 » Sun, 31 Aug 2014 10:14 pm

I can't say, I'm not an algorithm.

I can estimate my COL in London from first hand experience. But your set up and requirements are very different, I can't possibly guess and yield anything of any value at all.

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Post by Mi Amigo » Mon, 01 Sep 2014 2:33 am

WD40, have you ever lived in London? Or even been there? Or is this another piece of wisdom similar to your earlier opinions of Hong Kong (which you have never visited)?

Tobe2015, FWIW I'd concur with JR8's advice (he and I have both lived in London and Singapore, but not together you understand :D ).
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Post by Tobe2015 » Mon, 01 Sep 2014 6:16 am

taxico wrote:what is your living standard?

where do you stay? what sort of lifestyle do you lead? etc...
I don't normally cook at home would just get salad or buy ready to eat food, don't do drinking or smoking. Do gym regularly, and would prefer the facility at my doorstep. Weekends normally would either be out with friends or staying at home.

I live in my flat in the UK, so would be expecting living similarly in Singapore, Don't have to be very close to the city centre as long as it's near to the MTR station. I would be working in Jurong area, so anywhere easy to commute via MTR would be ok, I did some search seems lakeside could be a choice? And I can get a 1 bed condo at around s$2500?

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Re: Advice on job offer please

Post by Tobe2015 » Mon, 01 Sep 2014 6:36 am

JR8 wrote:
Tobe2015 wrote:Hi, I m currently working in the UK at around £42k, I have been made an offer to relocate (I applied for the job internally in the company) to Singapore with monthly salary of S$7k before tax, which works out S$91k per annum, there is no housing allowance provided but they do offer 1-off relocation expense (equivalent to 1 month salary) and 1 month temp accommodation.
So I m just wondering would that salary be good enough to maintain my living standard? Or should I be going back negotiate for more? I m single and would be looking to rent 1 or 2 bed condo on my own. Any advice would be of great help and very much appreciated.
Thanks~
My first impression is that it's a pretty sucky offer. My experience is that it's difficult to turn such into a decent offer, never mind a good one.

S$91k is about £44k. Do you think they're just aiming to move you at a 1-1 equivalent salary? Taxes will be lower here, but costs will be higher, especially regarding housing.

You need a cost of living adjustment table (aka 'COLA table') to get a general salary conversion factor between the UK and here. Read the FAQs or do a search on it.

Since you applied for the job/transfer, it's pretty clear they're not giving you anything like an ex-pat package, i.e. it's a 'Local package' offer.

What housing needs will you have, that will be your largest expense by far? You need to define and cost that to know whether the offer has any wings at all.

Refer to the two 'sticky' posts at the top of the topics list in this sub-forum, specifically 'Where should I/we live...' and 'Cost of living comparison'. You'll see others posters previously who have posted things along the lines of 'Is this package of X/Y, X +a/b' going to be enough, and how those discussions panned out.

Final word, if you're good at your job and you're bringing special skills to SG then you must be properly remunerated. If you applied for the position and are happy to 'get by' or use the move as a stepping stone, you should accurately define your minimum budget and hence required pay. If you come here and don't get paid enough, you might just have a pretty damned miserable time of it...
Thanks for the advice. I will do some search on the COLA table.

Yes that's it is a local offer and not an expat package (they say it's difficult to get expat nowadays). The new job in Singapore is actually a higher position than what I m currently doing, and I did wonder if they should offer me more than just converting pretty much equivalently from £ to s$, but I m not sure how much I should be asking, $10k maybe? Don't know...

I m confident in what I m doing and working in Singapore is a good experience which I really want to gain as part of the long term career development, but as you said I don't want it to be a situation where after 3 months I found the salary is not enough and regret the decision...

My budget for housing would be $2500 - $3000, which seems to be the lowest possible for condo, after looking at . website...

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Re: Advice on job offer please

Post by Tobe2015 » Mon, 01 Sep 2014 6:53 am

chris_pilgrim wrote:
Tobe2015 wrote:..... there is no housing allowance provided but they do offer 1-off relocation expense (equivalent to 1 month salary) and 1 month temp accommodation.

..... I m single and would be looking to rent 1 or 2 bed condo on my own
You need to ask for more or negotiate for a housing allowance. You mentioned you'd like to rent a 1 / 2 bedroom condo... Don't forget you still have utilities (water, gas, electricity, telecom, condo maintenance fees) + miscellaneous to consider.

SGD7k before tax is pretty tricky.
Thank you for the reply. Do you have any idea of how much the utilities would be per month?

Yes I am now thinking the same, if they don't cover the housing allowance, I would need to negotiate more for my base salary. If I m looking to spend s$2500-3000 in rent ing a condo ( if I can get one), how much percentage should that be taking in the whole salary, to be able to live comfortably, say 30%? Which will lead the salary to be around s$9k, does it sound logical? Just would like to have any idea of how much more I should be asking.

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