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EP Rejection and new application - please help

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EP Rejection and new application - please help

Postby aus-sing » Thu, 28 Aug 2014 8:43 pm

I would really appreciate some help!

I know it is hard to predict an outcome that the Ministry of Manpower may make, but I do really need some opinions from people with personal experience.

I am applying for a role with a well established international financial services company in Singapore as a Business Manager.
1.The salary will be S$15-18K/month.
2. I do not have a completed university degree
3. I do have a recognised Advanced Diploma and relevant work experience of 8+ years and am a member of the Australian Institute of Management.
4. I have worked for this organisation in the past in Australia. I have never worked in Singapore.

What are the chances that I will be approved given I do not have a degree?


I don't know whether to go for this position or wait to finish my Masters degree. I have already been rejected a couple of months ago for a role with the same organisations in Singapore so don't want to burn bridges and I'm not sure if I should wait. Since been rejected, I have since gained the previous mentioned qualifications.

My EP was rejected for the previous role because 1. Lack of qualifications for role 2. Salary does not seem commensurate with experience

I'm Australian, the role was paying S$19K.

Because it was a 6-month contract role, the employer decided not to appeal even though since the rejection I have received an Advanced Diploma in a related area.
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Postby Wd40 » Thu, 28 Aug 2014 8:46 pm

Very strange!

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Postby aus-sing » Thu, 28 Aug 2014 8:49 pm

Wd40 wrote:Very strange!

the fact that it was rejected?
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Postby Wd40 » Thu, 28 Aug 2014 9:21 pm

Yes. I am yet to hear about someone to be rejected at those salary levels.
Also that fact that salary too high being a factor for rejection is something very new.

At those salary levels you didn't have to have qualifications, until now. I know they are tightening, but somehow, your case seems too harsh. I suspect, your employer might have abused work visas in the past. Does your employer have too many foreigners as a ratio of the total staff? This could be the biggest reason.

My suggestion, make your employer appeal and ask them to make a very compelling case to justify why they need to hire and pay you that much. Or simply try another employer. If someone wants to pay you that high, I am sure, your skills are in high demand.

Don't give up, that's how things work here these days, lots of persuasion needed compared to what used to be a 1 day affair to get an EP in the past. Earlier they were too lax and now to compensate they are getting too stringent and going overboard with it.

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Postby aus-sing » Thu, 28 Aug 2014 10:13 pm

thanks for your response. I like you assumed it would be simple as 123 because the employer has a very good reputation and very strong returns and hugh capital. In fact, I made the silly mistake of packing up, giving up a permanent job in Australia that I had just accepted for this dream job and flew over to Singapore only to find out the next morning of arrival that my application was rejected and I was not provided any reimbursement.

I suspect the salary seemed high because of my age being only early 30s with no degree and my previous salaries being considerably lower. having said that the rate was negotiated based on the equivalent of a day-rate in a comparable contract role in Australia. I have proven experience in establishing new departments and processes and have trained MBA graduates so it's quiet ironic and a shock because we aren't so focused on qualifications in Aus rather on a candidates ability to actually deliver value to the business.

I cannot appeal the rejection - it's too late for that as they have employed someone else - a local. The question now is whether I pursue the new opportunity or continue working in Aus until I confer a degree and try and pursue opportunities at such time in Singapore.

I really really want to live and work in Singapore - I hate being back here :-(
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 28 Aug 2014 10:43 pm

The role may not have called for someone at that level of payscale (in their eyes). So it might have looked like something of a ruse just to get you on the payroll (with possibly a kickback to the employer - probably not the case, but it's a ruse that has be tried and tried again. So, they tend to err on the side of caution. Or they felt pretty sure that there were suitably qualified locals that would be able to fill the position. As, it would seem, was the case. Therefore, they were justified in the rejection as the position WAS filled by a local. It is getting rough here. At all levels.

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Postby taxico » Fri, 29 Aug 2014 12:08 am

aus-sing wrote:...The question now is whether I pursue the new opportunity or continue working in Aus until I confer a degree and try and pursue opportunities at such time in Singapore.


how long before you finish your degree? is it relevant to the area you wish to be/remain in? is it from a school that is recognized by singapore (mom/moe etc)?
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Postby JR8 » Fri, 29 Aug 2014 10:09 am

Hi aus-sing, and welcome to the forum.

A few thoughts/comments...
If you were applying for a full time job at that pay level it would be a P1 EP (visa). For that level being a graduate is not a requirement. I don’t know what kind of visa you are applying for though, do you?
How do you go from an Advanced Diploma to a Masters? Wouldn’t there normally be an undergraduate course in between?
Your chances? They depend upon things like how much ‘foreigner quota’ the hiring company have. That aside if you’re being paid that $ one has to imagine the hiring company think you’re qualified for it!

Whether to interrupt your Masters is another matter. Short term $ gain, versus any virtue derived from having that qualification on your resume. Can you suspend your studies whilst here?

I think rejection due to quals is a red herring, especially considering 8+ years experience. There is a recognised concept of ‘Qualified by experience’, particularly at the P1 level (how I got in here 1st time around). The local HR is perhaps the best one to try and interpret the previous rejection.

Best of luck.

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Postby aus-sing » Fri, 29 Aug 2014 10:49 am

JR8 wrote:Hi aus-sing, and welcome to the forum.

A few thoughts/comments...
If you were applying for a full time job at that pay level it would be a P1 EP (visa). For that level being a graduate is not a requirement. I don’t know what kind of visa you are applying for though, do you?
How do you go from an Advanced Diploma to a Masters? Wouldn’t there normally be an undergraduate course in between?
Your chances? They depend upon things like how much ‘foreigner quota’ the hiring company have. That aside if you’re being paid that $ one has to imagine the hiring company think you’re qualified for it!

Whether to interrupt your Masters is another matter. Short term $ gain, versus any virtue derived from having that qualification on your resume. Can you suspend your studies whilst here?

I think rejection due to quals is a red herring, especially considering 8+ years experience. There is a recognised concept of ‘Qualified by experience’, particularly at the P1 level (how I got in here 1st time around). The local HR is perhaps the best one to try and interpret the previous rejection.

Best of luck.


Thanks for the welcome and insight JR8. I cannot begin to express how stressful my first experience was - waiting around in a country after I had packed up everything and trying to get answers from the agency and employer about an appeal.

The agency applied for an EP and S pass.

I'm not worried about interrupting my masters. They have block-mode and online options as well as the flexibility to defer.

Regarding entering a Masters program without an undergraduate degree, it is possible in most Masters degrees in Australia if you have relevant professional experience, although they usually ask you to start with a Graduate Certificate and continue to diploma and masters if you attain a minimum of a credit average.
Benny

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Postby aus-sing » Fri, 29 Aug 2014 10:55 am

OMG!
I just re-read the submission the agency maid for my EP application (which was rejected). And look what I noticed under Industry Carification

In Step 2 Application iNFORMATION, Section C b) Industry Classification: MAID AGENCIES

Could this be the reason my application was rejected?

It's a management role for an international FI!
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Postby JR8 » Fri, 29 Aug 2014 11:03 am

On the hop right now, haven't read past para 1 of your reply, but first thing...

S Pass... ? On say $200kpa !? WTH were they thinking!? :o

------------------------------
'S Pass The S Pass allows mid-level skilled foreigners who earn a fixed monthly salary of at least $2,200 to work in Singapore. Employers must make S Pass applications on behalf of a job candidate. S Pass applications are assessed on multiple criteria including salary, education qualification, skills, job type and work experience. read more - See more at: http://www.mom.gov.sg/foreign-manpower/ ... CBk4T.dpuf
-------------------------------

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 29 Aug 2014 11:07 am

aus-sing wrote:OMG! I just re-read the submission the agency maid ...

In Step 2 Application iNFORMATION, Section C b) Industry Classification: MAID AGENCIES

Could this be the reason my application was rejected?

It's a management role for an international FI!



:lol: :lol: :lol: Just slightly

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Postby aus-sing » Fri, 29 Aug 2014 11:15 am

I cannot believe it! All that stress and $$ wasted for a simple mistake like that!

They only provided me the submission after I pushed and told off at the agency officer, which was probably too late.
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Postby nakatago » Fri, 29 Aug 2014 12:07 pm

JR8 wrote:
aus-sing wrote:OMG! I just re-read the submission the agency maid ...

In Step 2 Application iNFORMATION, Section C b) Industry Classification: MAID AGENCIES

Could this be the reason my application was rejected?

It's a management role for an international FI!



:lol: :lol: :lol: Just slightly



Well, THERE'S your problem!

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Postby Wd40 » Fri, 29 Aug 2014 12:17 pm

aus-sing wrote:OMG!
I just re-read the submission the agency maid for my EP application (which was rejected). And look what I noticed under Industry Carification

In Step 2 Application iNFORMATION, Section C b) Industry Classification: MAID AGENCIES

Could this be the reason my application was rejected?

It's a management role for an international FI!


I wonder whether there humans approving/rejecting EP applications or machines.

I mean, imagine name of the employer "ANZ Singapore LTD" salary 15K and if the industry classification is Maid Agency, even a high school boy will know its an error. Considering the Justifications given, the person who handled your case at MoM was really dumb, if he/she was a person, that is.
Last edited by Wd40 on Fri, 29 Aug 2014 12:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.


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