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thoughts on "floodgates opening up" again?

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
bgd
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Postby bgd » Fri, 29 Aug 2014 3:15 pm

ScoobyDoes wrote:
bgd wrote:Actually at the moment it's probably more about trying to teach the voters that they cannot have both prosperity and no foreigners.



They could.....if they got off their fat backsides and improved productivity.

For all the work done in the last few years, productivity is getting worse. You want to ask how many Singaporeans it takes to change a light bulb? Truth is none knows how to do it.


Life skills aside, they have a shrinking population. Learning to change a light bulb and breed. Big ask. :)

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Postby ScoobyDoes » Fri, 29 Aug 2014 5:41 pm

bgd wrote:Life skills aside, they have a shrinking population. Learning to change a light bulb and breed. Big ask. :)



You mean multi-tasking is a problem?

Not sure you need to both at the same time though. :shock:
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Postby rajagainstthemachine » Fri, 29 Aug 2014 6:25 pm

flood gates opening?? more like p**sing in the wind really.
To get there early is on time and showing up on time is late

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Postby PNGMK » Sat, 30 Aug 2014 10:29 pm

bgd wrote:
GSM8 wrote:
triste wrote:I don't think the floodgates are ever going to open again. If anything, the door is going to slam shut.

More likely a model similar to Dubai might be adopted wherein it's next to impossible for a foreigner to get PR, but work visa's are issued freely on an as needed basis


It's a balancing act, try and keep the voters happy without destroying the economy. Actually at the moment it's probably more about trying to teach the voters that they cannot have both prosperity and no foreigners.

I doubt the floodgates will open, it will just continue to be managed immigration along with something like the visa approach mentioned above.


+1 to the Dubai visa style - in fact an old friend turned fascist - Fatimah Akhtar - who is in the NSP - is suggesting pretty much exactly that - never mind that her father is an Indian migrant himself to Singapore (but it was soooo long ago it's not the same thing lah!). I can see this idea gaining serious traction in the PAP if they are still struggling with the polls.

To quote some of her musings:
***********
We seem to have the belief that if we don’t make it attractive for the foreigner, they will not stay and will not take citizenship. UAE is a good example that proves our theory false. There are many who have been out there for 3 generations. If the opportunities are better than country of origin that in itself is motivation for people to stay.

“What strikes me the most is that all foreigners know that it is a privilege to be able to work there not an entitlement”

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Postby JR8 » Sat, 30 Aug 2014 11:24 pm

PNGMK wrote:Even though foreigners outnumber citizens 5 to 1, nobody would dare to disrespect the Emirati. As foreigners living there we know that if we disrespect them in any way the consequences are serious. What strikes me the most is that all foreigners know that it is a privilege to be able to work there not an entitlement. The relationship between citizen and foreigner is that of Host and Guest.


Difference is most 'hosts' here, were guests just yesterday.

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Postby earthfriendly » Sat, 30 Aug 2014 11:44 pm

Do labels matter that much? Be it "hosts" or "guests"?

I am a 3rd generation Singaporean. Singapore was home to me while I was living there. To my siblings living there, Singapore is their home. And for my parents born and bred there, Singapore is their home. And to my grandparents who braved the treacherous trip from the Fujian province, they had made Singapore their home. I am not sure if they ever get caught up with or spend too much time fretting about wheather they were "hosts" or "guests". I know they expended a lot of energy to build a new home base for themselves, for their family and their future generations to prosper.

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Postby PNGMK » Sun, 31 Aug 2014 2:28 pm

JR8 wrote:
PNGMK wrote:Even though foreigners outnumber citizens 5 to 1, nobody would dare to disrespect the Emirati. As foreigners living there we know that if we disrespect them in any way the consequences are serious. What strikes me the most is that all foreigners know that it is a privilege to be able to work there not an entitlement. The relationship between citizen and foreigner is that of Host and Guest.


Difference is most 'hosts' here, were guests just yesterday.


Good point. I'd add that probably 90% of the foreign workers in the emirates work under slave like conditions.

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Postby Wd40 » Sun, 31 Aug 2014 3:23 pm

I am all for Dubai style work visas. They are actually lot better than Singapore PR. I personally know so many people who are in Dubai from 2 generations and they never had problems finding a job or visa. Here in Singpore, even having a PR doesn't mean its easy to find a job and houses are still expensive to buy. Best part about Dubai visa is male child doesn't have to do NS.

So if they implement Dubai style visas, its actually benefitting the foreigners. I doubt that will happen. EPs will be made hard to get, PRs even harder. So all round tightening should be expected.

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Postby ecureilx » Sun, 31 Aug 2014 4:27 pm

Wd40 wrote:I am all for Dubai style work visas. They are actually lot better than Singapore PR. I personally know so many people who are in Dubai from 2 generations and they never had problems finding a job or visa. Here in Singpore, even having a PR doesn't mean its easy to find a job and houses are still expensive to buy. Best part about Dubai visa is male child doesn't have to do NS.

So if they implement Dubai style visas, its actually benefitting the foreigners. I doubt that will happen. EPs will be made hard to get, PRs even harder. So all round tightening should be expected.


pretty speechless I am

Dubai is an Emirate

so you prefer to earn and go back vs long term plans, hence your aversion to PR and NS, right?

I know people who have lived in Dubai and Kuwait and after 2 generations are neither here nor there and children are struggling to adapt in their adopted countries as pure last class residents and also in their own native countries,

not that they can be citizens in those countries even if they want to be

and maybe you have seen the rosy lifestyles in Dubai but a vast majority live less comfortably vs SG, and natives are always right in anything involving foreigners, including minor traffic accidents ..

yah, the high flyers have no issue I guess.

btw, now I understand what the locals here say, when they say certain nationalities have zero interest to sink roots here but try and reap all benefits and they should be given second or third class privilege until their second generation is here ...

PS, why do almost everyone from my forefather's country see NS as so bad like Death penalty? its another subject I guess ...

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Postby Wd40 » Sun, 31 Aug 2014 5:11 pm

No I didn't say I want to earn and go back. I am saying foreigner in Dubai feels more permanent than PR in Singapore. Like you said yourself, you know generations of foreigners living in Dubai, inspite of them not giving them residency. Singapore gives residency to people, yet, we don't see the same kind of attachment and commitment from people to Singapore. Why so?

PR, Citizenship are just pieces of paper and that's how people treat them, in Singapore. The other day I was talking to bunch of locals and we were talking about sports and then I mentioned to them about how Feng Tienwei won medal for Singapore and they were very quick to mention she was "imported" Singaporean. So basically a foreigner remains a foreigner in Singapore regardless of what their passport colour is.

I agree that locals there treat foreigners, especially those from South Asia, like dirt, but hey there are so many of us there. In UAE, 91% of the population are foreigners and half of them are Indians. There are huge communities there from India, for example the number of Malayalees, Tamils, Gujaratis etc and all are huge and self sufficient. They run their own hotels, there are indian schools everything. They feel more at home there than in their hometown.

Read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indians_in ... b_Emirates

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Same same

Postby The Ref » Mon, 01 Sep 2014 11:41 pm

ScoobyDoes wrote:
bgd wrote:Life skills aside, they have a shrinking population. Learning to change a light bulb and breed. Big ask. :)



You mean multi-tasking is a problem?

Not sure you need to both at the same time though. :shock:


I was thinking they have trouble screwing in a light bulb - as well as in a HDB with Mum, Dad and the inlaws in the next room ;-)

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Media slants

Postby The Ref » Mon, 01 Sep 2014 11:54 pm

On the radio this morning, there was an article on how Broadcom have just moved from Singapore to Ireland because the termination of tax incentives. The radio article sounded like (paraphrasing) "Good riddance to bad rubbish". It seems they minimised tax by S$528M over the last 10 years - no mention of the lost jobs or impact on the economy but only on the negatively viewed fact that they were using a tax minimisation scheme offered by the government to bring them here in the first place.

Interestingly a google search shows the bird cage liner has an article on how it will further stretch the industry.

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Postby PNGMK » Tue, 02 Sep 2014 12:53 am

Wd40 wrote:No I didn't say I want to earn and go back. I am saying foreigner in Dubai feels more permanent than PR in Singapore. Like you said yourself, you know generations of foreigners living in Dubai, inspite of them not giving them residency. Singapore gives residency to people, yet, we don't see the same kind of attachment and commitment from people to Singapore. Why so?

PR, Citizenship are just pieces of paper and that's how people treat them, in Singapore. The other day I was talking to bunch of locals and we were talking about sports and then I mentioned to them about how Feng Tienwei won medal for Singapore and they were very quick to mention she was "imported" Singaporean. So basically a foreigner remains a foreigner in Singapore regardless of what their passport colour is.

I agree that locals there treat foreigners, especially those from South Asia, like dirt, but hey there are so many of us there. In UAE, 91% of the population are foreigners and half of them are Indians. There are huge communities there from India, for example the number of Malayalees, Tamils, Gujaratis etc and all are huge and self sufficient. They run their own hotels, there are indian schools everything. They feel more at home there than in their hometown.

Read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indians_in ... b_Emirates


You're not a PR so your opinion on how it feels to be one is irrelevant.

What you should have said was how you feel being on an EP.

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Re: Media slants

Postby Mi Amigo » Tue, 02 Sep 2014 4:13 am

The Ref wrote:On the radio this morning, there was an article on how Broadcom have just moved from Singapore to Ireland because the termination of tax incentives. The radio article sounded like (paraphrasing) "Good riddance to bad rubbish". It seems they minimised tax by S$528M over the last 10 years - no mention of the lost jobs or impact on the economy but only on the negatively viewed fact that they were using a tax minimisation scheme offered by the government to bring them here in the first place.

Interestingly a google search shows the bird cage liner has an article on how it will further stretch the industry.

Also interesting to see the whingeing about this on the various local 'foreigner and gahmen bashing' sites. I'd have thought they'd be happy to see some foreigners leave. Although one commenter on TRE obviously sees this as a step in their preferred direction, but wants to go much further...

42000 COMPANIES NEEDS TO MOVE OUT !!!!!!!!!!!!

SO THAT WE RID THE ISLAND OF PIGS, TRASH, GARBAGE OF ALL KINDS,

WHITE, BROWN, PRC, INDIANS, PINO, MALAYSIANS, ETC ETC….

THE ISLAND NEEDS TO RETURN BACK TO 100 B ECONOMY OR LESS…………

LIFE WOULD BE BETTER, WITHOUT ALL THE TRASH AND SLAVE TRADERS,

INCLUDING THIS FREAK GOV……….MINISTERS …………….

If they carry on at this rate, they may get what they are asking for in the end.
Be careful what you wish for

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He He

Postby The Ref » Tue, 02 Sep 2014 9:24 am

So get rid of the Malays - the historical owners of this fine Island - and keep the Chinese immigrants from 2 generations ago. Get rid of those who bring companies here - that way they will get their 100 B economy (although the B may stand for Baht not Billion). Get rid of those that fix the roads, mind their children or serve in the Hawker centres.

That poster must be sooooo much smarter than me because I don't understand the logic.


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