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ecureilx
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Post by ecureilx » Fri, 17 Oct 2014 7:51 pm

ScoobyDoes wrote:Technically, I'm with ecureilx on this one, to some extent, whether serious or not. Damage to any property, owned by somebody else, needs to be addressed.

So, this is a plant/flower/petals right, so what? It doesn't matter if it's petals or the wing mirror of somebody's car, it's damage to other people's property and, in a nutnutshell, vandalism.

Petals grow back, wing mirrors can be fixed but you can't differentiate.

I know it's extreme but it's the basics and kids don't know, anyway, how to differentiate so it's better to be all encompassing.

Picking the odd flower is acceptable as far as I'm concerned, but not for wanton destruction and just pulling them for fun, or because "there's plenty so why not?"
and this is Singapore

recently I mentioned to a local friend that me and my cousins used to shoot squirrels with a air gun in gramp's estate and you should have seen his face

utter shock

I didn't dare tell Him I used to stick a needle in the lead pellet to stop the squirrel running .... :twisted:

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ecureilx
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Post by ecureilx » Fri, 17 Oct 2014 7:57 pm

JR8 wrote: Sounds like a killjoy busy-body interfering old bat to me. Sticking her nose in where it's not needed or wanted.
years ago in a volunteer outing with less privileged kids, one kid decided to pour molten wax on a public bench, from a candle , instead of joining the lantern making and other moon cake activity

a local told the kid to stop it

I told the guy that's it's a child

the reply?

Singaporeans should know someone has to clean his mess and he is damaging public property.

stay out of this, was his advice, the fellow a govt servant

he went on to make the kid scrape all the wax and clean the bench

I could only watch and the guy wasn't wrong ...

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Post by zzm9980 » Fri, 17 Oct 2014 11:01 pm

ecureilx wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:...Some old chinese auntie came over and yelled at them, grabbing one by the wrist. ..

Worth noting the flowers were public, not this lady's (she was just sitting there with some other aunties). There were a few dozen pedals on the ground of thousands still on the plant. (It was a hedge a few meters long)
In Singapore, if the lady was a Singaporean, she was just reprimanding the kids for littering, fair .. if the parents don't teach the kids, then somebody had to teach them ;) :P :P

and the plants are all govt property, and .. in a way, the children were 'damaging public property' ;)

so how ??? D
It wasn't in Singapore, and it was private property that did not belong to the aunty.

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Post by zzm9980 » Fri, 17 Oct 2014 11:02 pm

JR8 wrote: Sounds like a killjoy busy-body interfering old bat to me. Sticking her nose in where it's not needed or wanted.
Exactly what it was.

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Post by zzm9980 » Fri, 17 Oct 2014 11:06 pm

ScoobyDoes wrote:Technically, I'm with ecureilx on this one, to some extent, whether serious or not. Damage to any property, owned by somebody else, needs to be addressed.

So, this is a plant/flower/petals right, so what? It doesn't matter if it's petals or the wing mirror of somebody's car, it's damage to other people's property and, in a nutnutshell, vandalism.

Petals grow back, wing mirrors can be fixed but you can't differentiate.

I know it's extreme but it's the basics and kids don't know, anyway, how to differentiate so it's better to be all encompassing.

Picking the odd flower is acceptable as far as I'm concerned, but not for wanton destruction and just pulling them for fun, or because "there's plenty so why not?"
Slow down, slippery slope man. It was a group of three 2-3 year olds, in a big grass park/outdoor area intended for them to play on, and the total pedals picked are probably less than your age. This is a place where adults play football (association, not hand egg), dogs run around with the owners or off the leash, and all kinds of other 'outdoor shenanigans'. The kids just happened to be at the edge of this public area next to the side walk which was a few meters from aunty's table (which DID belong to a Starbucks, that she was not buying anything from. So trespassing ah?)

But going by your theory here, I should chastise her for walking across the lawn? Because if she were 50kg heavier and to drag her feet in an intentional way, she might tear the lawn up in a destructive way? Did you ever pick dandelions as a kid?

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Post by zzm9980 » Fri, 17 Oct 2014 11:09 pm

ecureilx wrote:
JR8 wrote: Sounds like a killjoy busy-body interfering old bat to me. Sticking her nose in where it's not needed or wanted.
years ago in a volunteer outing with less privileged kids, one kid decided to pour molten wax on a public bench, from a candle , instead of joining the lantern making and other moon cake activity

a local told the kid to stop it

I told the guy that's it's a child

the reply?

Singaporeans should know someone has to clean his mess and he is damaging public property.

stay out of this, was his advice, the fellow a govt servant

he went on to make the kid scrape all the wax and clean the bench

I could only watch and the guy wasn't wrong ...
See I would reprimand my child and not allow her to do that. I wouldn't reprimand a kid that wasn't mine though.

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Post by x9200 » Sat, 18 Oct 2014 9:27 am

zzm9980 wrote:It was a group of three 2-3 year olds, in a big grass park/outdoor area intended for them to play on, and the total pedals picked are probably less than your age. This is a place where adults play football (association, not hand egg), dogs run around with the owners or off the leash, and all kinds of other 'outdoor shenanigans'. The kids just happened to be at the edge of this public area next to the side walk which was a few meters from aunty's table (which DID belong to a Starbucks, that she was not buying anything from. So trespassing ah?)

But going by your theory here, I should chastise her for walking across the lawn? Because if she were 50kg heavier and to drag her feet in an intentional way, she might tear the lawn up in a destructive way? Did you ever pick dandelions as a kid?
What you described sounds pretty reasonable but it still depends on the circumstances. Just to illustrate, if it was a public lawn with a patch of tulips planted in the middle I would not let my son to pick the petals. No problem with dandelions or daises (within the grass) though.
It get's more complicated if this was a private lawn. The owner may think that if he had 20 kids a day and every kid would just pick one daisy his lawn is shaved clean off the daises within a week or so. He could be right.

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Post by x9200 » Sat, 18 Oct 2014 9:39 am

Going physical is almost never acceptable so no aunty have any right to grab somebodies child, but in situation like this grabbing the aunty may be actually acceptable. What works here is the principle of the protection of more important value. Few petals are definitely less important then personal freedom so picking the petals is no justification for any physical violence. If the aunty would go that far to push the child or grab in the intention of hurting her then pushing the aunty away would be legally justified (IMHO).

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Post by ecureilx » Sat, 18 Oct 2014 11:28 am

zzm9980 wrote: But going by your theory here, I should chastise her for walking across the lawn? Because if she were 50kg heavier and to drag her feet in an intentional way, she might tear the lawn up in a destructive way? Did you ever pick dandelions as a kid?
you didn't know that walking on lawn is prohibited in many places in Singapore???? :D :D :D

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Post by zzm9980 » Sat, 18 Oct 2014 12:37 pm

x9200 wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:It was a group of three 2-3 year olds, in a big grass park/outdoor area intended for them to play on, and the total pedals picked are probably less than your age. This is a place where adults play football (association, not hand egg), dogs run around with the owners or off the leash, and all kinds of other 'outdoor shenanigans'. The kids just happened to be at the edge of this public area next to the side walk which was a few meters from aunty's table (which DID belong to a Starbucks, that she was not buying anything from. So trespassing ah?)

But going by your theory here, I should chastise her for walking across the lawn? Because if she were 50kg heavier and to drag her feet in an intentional way, she might tear the lawn up in a destructive way? Did you ever pick dandelions as a kid?
What you described sounds pretty reasonable but it still depends on the circumstances. Just to illustrate, if it was a public lawn with a patch of tulips planted in the middle I would not let my son to pick the petals. No problem with dandelions or daises (within the grass) though.
It get's more complicated if this was a private lawn. The owner may think that if he had 20 kids a day and every kid would just pick one daisy his lawn is shaved clean off the daises within a week or so. He could be right.

Getting off topic, but it was something like this:
Image

Nothing well manicured like tulips. Plenty of blooms just like pictured, and a couple dozen petals on the ground.
Last edited by zzm9980 on Sat, 18 Oct 2014 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by nutnut » Sat, 18 Oct 2014 12:38 pm

pulling a few leaves off a plant in a tropical country where they grow wild is hardly vandalism. Not reprimanding a 3 year old for doing it is hardly going to turn them into a hooligan.

Things aren't just black and white, you have to let kids be kids sometimes!
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Post by the lynx » Mon, 20 Oct 2014 1:11 pm

I'd agree with telling off children who are doing damages as extensive as what squirrel said. But I'd disagree with physically manhandling children for pulling out petals.

Come on guys, do we really have to be so technical about what kinds of flowers are permissible to be vandalised or not, private or public, and how many petals have to be plucked to justify reprimanding/manhandling, being austere versus having complete childhood?

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Post by nakatago » Mon, 20 Oct 2014 1:15 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
JR8 wrote: Sounds like a killjoy busy-body interfering old bat to me. Sticking her nose in where it's not needed or wanted.
Exactly what it was.
Plenty of Singaporean auntie types are just like that; thinking they're morally superior to 'em youngins....

In fact, I had a run in with one such type here in the forums. :roll:

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Post by ScoobyDoes » Mon, 20 Oct 2014 2:57 pm

the lynx wrote:I'd agree with telling off children who are doing damages as extensive as what squirrel said. But I'd disagree with physically manhandling children for pulling out petals.

Come on guys, do we really have to be so technical about what kinds of flowers are permissible to be vandalised or not, private or public, and how many petals have to be plucked to justify reprimanding/manhandling, being austere versus having complete childhood?

For me it's a case of "Start as you mean to continue."

It is far easier to loosen the reins as time goes by rather than try to pull them tighter when the "little one" is big enough to kick my @ss.
'When Lewis Hamilton wins a race he has to thank Vodafone whereas in my day I used to chase the crumpet. I know which era I'd rather race in.'

SIR Stirling Moss OBE

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Post by ecureilx » Mon, 20 Oct 2014 3:07 pm

this does happen in Singapore, sometimes, when officially sanctioned

Image

though a few people still try to do this ;) even when taking part in the run .. !!! lest they get charged for littering ;)

Image

yah, some runners slowed and started looking for a bin ..

Some habits are hard to die, but they are for the good I guess !!!!!!!

pictures were taken by in last weekends North Run !!!!

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