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ScoobyDoes
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Post by ScoobyDoes » Fri, 29 Aug 2014 12:32 pm

It's something my wife had to learn as well to some extent, and to be honest she's not there yet even after all these years, but I refused to drive until my son was in his car seat, no matter the crying and shouting.

My wife would say "it's only just down the road" but the point is, again, do it one time and it sets a precedence, a form of negotiation that leads to failure.

Negotiating with somebody old enough to understand the rules is fine, but not a child.

Yes is yes and no is no, though it CAN also be acceptable to admit a mistake and change your mind so long as your reasoning is sound and the child understand they did not win a battle or a negotiation.
'When Lewis Hamilton wins a race he has to thank Vodafone whereas in my day I used to chase the crumpet. I know which era I'd rather race in.'

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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 29 Aug 2014 1:56 pm

^^This. Fully.

I have laid a hand on both of mine on rare occasions. My daughter once. My son, considerably more (maybe a half dozen time in his whole childhood). However, after the first time with my son, and it was all about setting boundaries. I tell them and I've always told them "I tell you to do something or not to do something 3 times. But the third time will be too late as it will be accompanied by a swift 3 smacks on the butt (one for each time I had to tell them). My daughter learned after the first time. My son, typical, liked to gamble to see how far he could go before doing it, so would almost always wait until I told him the second time and then would gamble how long before told him again/if he could wait just long enough....... Sometimes he lost. But as notated, if you tell them something, you better follow through (be it reward or punishment). My wife didn't listen to me, she has always been walked over by the kids and it is still being done today. However, I have their complete respect as they know I'll do whatever it takes to keep my promises (both good or bad) and they know they can always depend on me. I'm hard core but fair. I give them the OB markers and if they want to pay the price, they can. My niece and nephew who live with me were treated the same way as long as they live under my roof.
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Post by ScoobyDoes » Fri, 29 Aug 2014 2:54 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:However, I have their complete respect as they know I'll do whatever it takes to keep my promises (both good or bad) and they know they can always depend on me. I'm hard core but fair. I give them the OB markers and if they want to pay the price, they can.

Sounds like we're quite similar.....the only difference being you're a grouchy old barstool. :wink:
'When Lewis Hamilton wins a race he has to thank Vodafone whereas in my day I used to chase the crumpet. I know which era I'd rather race in.'

SIR Stirling Moss OBE

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Post by ecureilx » Fri, 29 Aug 2014 4:24 pm

ScoobyDoes wrote:]
Sounds like we're quite similar.....the only difference being you're a grouchy old barstool. :wink:
I would insert 'wise' somewhere there ;) ;)

experience does count I Guess!!!

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Post by ScoobyDoes » Fri, 29 Aug 2014 5:39 pm

ecureilx wrote:
ScoobyDoes wrote:]
Sounds like we're quite similar.....the only difference being you're a grouchy old barstool. :wink:
I would insert 'wise' somewhere there ;) ;)

experience does count I Guess!!!

After a dozen bottles of Corona wisdom is.......no, I think the reference is still correct. :P
'When Lewis Hamilton wins a race he has to thank Vodafone whereas in my day I used to chase the crumpet. I know which era I'd rather race in.'

SIR Stirling Moss OBE

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sundaymorningstaple
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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 29 Aug 2014 5:53 pm

^^This!

I'd have to agree. I practiced hard to get to where I am! :P
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Post by curiousgeorge » Fri, 29 Aug 2014 6:07 pm

I am an advocate of clicker training with young kids.

It was first developed for training dolphins, then used variously on dogs, cats, rabbits...until it was discovered that it works on kids. It reinforces and shapes good behaviour to the extent that kids OFFER the good behaviour. And if provides the carer with an alternative to bad behaviour from the child or resorting to beating children.

But I also push kids off a scooter in a shopping mall, or trip kids who are running in church. Kids gotta learn consequences...


...oh yeah, that's what clicker training is!


*for reference I was beaten with a wooden spoon, but never in anger or frustration. My parents would warn first, then pass sentence to be carried out the next day. 24 hours of thinking about being beaten is far, far worse than a quick smack in the cereal aisle.

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Post by Hannieroo » Fri, 29 Aug 2014 7:14 pm

We don't beat. We prefer other consequences and teaching children the right of other people's quiet enjoyment. They're well behaved.

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Post by aster » Sat, 30 Aug 2014 2:50 pm

curiousgeorge wrote:But I also push kids off a scooter in a shopping mall, or trip kids who are running in church. Kids gotta learn consequences...
Whoa, what is it that you do exactly? Hard to believe this could be some sort of typo...

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Post by Hannieroo » Sat, 30 Aug 2014 8:06 pm

I wonder what the consequences are for assaulting other people's children?

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Post by ecureilx » Sun, 31 Aug 2014 3:00 am

Hannieroo wrote:I wonder what the consequences are for assaulting other people's children?
double ouch, and interested in the answer as well!!

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Post by Chuckie » Thu, 16 Oct 2014 11:10 am

curiousgeorge wrote:

*for reference I was beaten with a wooden spoon, but never in anger or frustration. My parents would warn first, then pass sentence to be carried out the next day. 24 hours of thinking about being beaten is far, far worse than a quick smack in the cereal aisle.
The 24 hours of thinking about beaten is a good idea!

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Post by nutnut » Thu, 16 Oct 2014 1:27 pm

Hannieroo wrote:I wonder what the consequences are for assaulting other people's children?
If someone were to assault my children? I'd report it to the police, it's assault on a minor and a very serious offence. Frankly, if they were to hit my son, they'd probably get a punch back from him, we've taught him to defend himself, but, never to strike out first and I am concerned if he decides to hit me when he gets in his teens, he's growing fast! He may be young, but, he's kinda built like me, solid...

Everyone is entitled to raise their children how they see fit, when they grow into adults they will learn very quickly how this will affect them. Thing is, it's not a strangers place to step in, unless they are doing something illegal. It is for people to butt the hell out and keep it to themselves. As a parent, if some stranger was to come and give me their opinion on how I should raise my kids, they will be sent away with their tail between their legs.
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Post by nutnut » Thu, 16 Oct 2014 1:40 pm

<RANT>
Oh and those people who say things like "They shouldn't come here if they can't keep their kids quiet". I hate this, I will make my kids talk more and there is nothing you can, or should be able to do about it. They are humans on the planet with the same rights as you, stop trying to enforce your rules on them because you are expecting a quiet time. You don't own public spaces, you wouldn't move if I told you I didn't like your face would you?

Kids are naturally enquisitive and naturally noisy, it's part of the learning process and should be encouraged. Of course, there should be times when they need to learn to be respectful, but, it isn't as easy as telling them to shut up, it takes time and you can't shout at them until they are quiet for the first 5 years of their life, that's called oppression and doesn't teach them anything useful!

Also, someone mentioned kids in church, of course they are trying to entertain themselves in another way, church sucks, you shouldn't enforce religion on kids, it's cruel to teach them such nonsense. What better to do than play tag?

</RANT>
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Post by x9200 » Thu, 16 Oct 2014 3:15 pm

nutnut wrote:<RANT>
Oh and those people who say things like "They shouldn't come here if they can't keep their kids quiet". I hate this, I will make my kids talk more and there is nothing you can, or should be able to do about it. They are humans on the planet with the same rights as you, stop trying to enforce your rules on them because you are expecting a quiet time. You don't own public spaces, you wouldn't move if I told you I didn't like your face would you?
Wow, that's a rant indeed.
You and your family don't own the public spaces neither and trying to monopolize them with noisy kids is IMHO very invasive. There are social norms to be learned and kids need to learn them too. Sooner they do, better for them. I am not saying they should be beaten by a stranger - this is clearly not acceptable, but everything should fit to the place, moment and the society. There is no absolute freedom even for the kids. If my son was a nuisance in a public space (i.e. restaurant or a cinema or even a mall) and he would be noisy and disturbing people other ways and I could not stop it he would stay at home.

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