EP P1 Chances

[benjiiiiii]

Hi

I am a British 21 years old skilled IT worker, in the industry for almost 4 years, and the company I work for have asked me to go and assist in SG opening new offices.

We are going through an agency that helps apply to the MoM, and something that has been flagged is my lack of degree. The maximum level of education I have in the UK is AS level. The company have made it very clear in my application that I am a key member to the launch in Singapore in terms of client development and new hire training, and I have 2 employment testimonials from previous and current employer which state I am highly skilled.

I have no criminal record, etc.

I am only stating this because it seems it may be relevant (I've seen others say it is in posts), my salary will be atleast $130kSGD but below $150kSGD per annum.

How do my chances fare realistically? The agency that is assisting has said we'll have to make a very good case for the necessity and may have to apply for a 'secondment'.

Many thanks in advance

[Mi Amigo]

Hi

I am a British 21 years old skilled IT worker, in the industry for almost 4 years, and the company I work for have asked me to go and assist in SG opening new offices.

We are going through an agency that helps apply to the MoM, and something that has been flagged is my lack of degree. The maximum level of education I have in the UK is AS level. The company have made it very clear in my application that I am a key member to the launch in Singapore in terms of client development and new hire training, and I have 2 employment testimonials from previous and current employer which state I am highly skilled.

I have no criminal record, etc.

I am only stating this because it seems it may be relevant (I've seen others say it is in posts), my salary will be atleast $130kSGD but below $150kSGD per annum.

How do my chances fare realistically? The agency that is assisting has said we'll have to make a very good case for the necessity and may have to apply for a 'secondment'.

Many thanks in advance

Welcome to the forum benjiiiiii.

For a P1 EP, in the past the criteria for this type of pass have been weighted more towards salary level than academic qualifications. For example, I obtained a P1 EP when I first moved to Singapore, despite 'only' holding an HND and not a degree. Mind you, that was ten years ago, but as far as I know, that hasn't changed. But I'm sure others will chime in if the situation is different nowadays.

I believe that the minimum 'fixed monthly salary and allowances' (i.e. not including bonuses or any other variable payment) to be considered for a P1 EP is $8,000 (again, if this has changed recently I'm sure someone will flag that up). Assuming that the figures you quoted were for your prospective 'fixed salary' then it seems you would meet that requirement. More details on the 'fixed monthly salary and allowances' here:

http://www.mom.gov.sg/foreign-manpower/passes-visas/employment-pass/before-you-apply/Pages/fixed-monthly-salary.aspx

I suspect that what the agency are referring to in terms of 'making a very good case' relates to the recent tightening up of requirements for companies wishing to hire foreign workers. This includes the obligation to post vacancies in a 'job bank' so that local applicants can apply - the idea being that preference should be given to Singaporeans. IMO this makes sense, but only up to the point where there are actually local candidates with the required knowledge and experience for the positions in question. Unfortunately however, a lot of Singaporeans have decided that they don't want foreigners in their country, so the government is trying to placate them by tightening the screws more and more. Hence the need to demonstrate to the MOM beyond any doubt that you have skills and experience that cannot be sourced from the local population. Keep in mind that there are already a lot of skilled IT people here, so it will be a case of showing what the differentiating factors are in your case.

Here's a presentation from the Iyer Practice (who I have used in the past for tax (as opposed to EP) related matters), which explains more about the current employment pass regime, etc.:

http://www.aasingapore.com/media/files/files/34638a18/Employment_Pass_Presentation_2014.pdf

AFAIK it is up to date, but if in doubt, you can also go to the 'horse's mouth' (a.k.a. MOM):

http://www.mom.gov.sg/foreign-manpower/passes-visas/employment-pass/before-you-apply/Pages/default.aspx

Good luck, and please keep us updated as to how everything goes.

p.s. Don't worry, a criminal record is not required here, unlike... [I'm sure you can fill in the rest of the cliche].

[zzm9980]

At that salary you'll have no problem. I know many people personally in that range who have P1s and no college. Hell, one is a US High school dropout.

I've heard it may be a negative factor if you ever intend to apply for PR.

[Wd40]

There is no more EP classification of P1 and P2. Its just whether you are 8k above, you get to bring your parents or else not. Everything else is the same.

[zzm9980]

There is no more EP classification of P1 and P2. Its just whether you are 8k above, you get to bring your parents or else not. Everything else is the same.

It's basically a P1 without the name though.

[Steve1960]

As said I think the case for you versus a local person is the key.

A little more than 2 years ago I obtained my employment pass having never got close to a University and with only one A level. I left school at 17.

However, I am a senior member of staff in the company I work for and had been with them for 13 years with all the company, customer and market knowledge that goes with that length of service.

Your employer needs to figure out a plausible differentiation for you.

[JR8]

I agree with what others have said.

I also got my first P1 here despite not being a graduate. The situation used to be referred to as 'Qualified by experience'.

Since most UK grads, perhaps unlike elsewhere, end up working in careers completely unrelated to their fields of study, it makes sense. What value being say a History of Art graduate, if my job is modelling risk on a bank trading floor?

So going back to the 'qualified by experience' angle. Maybe their question is, how much experience can a 21 year old have, in lieu of tertiary qualifications? Don't know, just trying to think how they maybe are.

I know when my visa applications went in here, and in Tokyo, the writer (KPMG/E+Y) went really, reeeeealllly, OTT in bigging-up my experience. Man, it was lol funny, and rather surreal too. But I know (now) why they went so to town...

Is the agent Singaporean? If so this response wouldn't surprise me. Since at your age the vast majority of the local youth haven't even left home, never mind landed themselves 6-figure jobs.

If your application is being reviewed by a 20-something local who still lives with his parents, he might well be having a 'cannot compute' circuit overload...

[nakatago]

If your application is being reviewed by a 20-something local who still lives with his parents, he might well be having a 'cannot compute' circuit overload...

As with most Singaporeans...they break down as soon as something goes off-script.

[benjiiiiii]

Hi all

Many thanks for the replies and assistance.

Justifying my need to be there should be *relatively* simple, we're in a very niche market with a niche service and skill set globally is rather limited. I have professional qualifications over in the UK which reduce the number down even further, so hopefully proving my capability should be OK

Many thanks for the help, I really appreciate it.

[JR8]

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

Meanwhile, we're a sounding-board for anything else that crops up.

[benjiiiiii]

Hey all!

Just an update - I received my 'Employment Pass' card on Wednesday and have been here for almost 3 weeks now, move into my condo tomorrow Very very happy.

Thanks all for your help,
Ben

[sundaymorningstaple]

Welcome to Singapore! Congrats on moving in and hopefully getting settled (although at 21 I was pretty settled wherever I took of my cap at night!

I reckon you'll be okay, but if there's anything we can help with, give us a shout.

sms