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British to Singapore Citizenship

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
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Mi Amigo
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Postby Mi Amigo » Thu, 14 Aug 2014 4:15 am

Also this...

curiousgeorge wrote:2) You can always get it back!

'Always' is a long time, and who's to say that the UK won't change the rules on this at some point in the future? It wouldn't be the first time they've made a change involving citizenship / right of abode.

And this...

curiousgeorge wrote:5) The rising economic climate in this region. The potential here. The opportunities Singapore alone presents.

Who's to say it will keep on rising? Personally I think the relentless pursuit of GDP growth at all costs is unsustainable in the current climate where a lot of the local populace want to kick out the foreign employers* who are providing them with jobs, renting their over-priced condos, etc. I also don't think Singapore alone has any unique opportunities these days - there are other places that can now compete and be cheaper and/or more attractive towards foreign companies who want to set up shop.

So, to spend some time in Singapore, sure - a good experience for many people, and I'm glad I had my decade there (so far). But to sever your ties back home and commit 'forever' to a 'castle in the sand'? Personally I wouldn't do it, but that's just me.

*Either directly, or indirectly (by making it increasingly difficult for them to hire suitably qualified / experienced employees in sufficient numbers).
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sundaymorningstaple
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 14 Aug 2014 6:52 am

^^ This.

Explains very well why I've been a PR here for over 20 of the 32 years I've been here but haven't bitten the bullet (and doubt that I will).

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Postby PNGMK » Thu, 14 Aug 2014 9:07 am

what happens if Singapore turns from the tolerant multi-racial and multi-cultural society into one which is intolerant and racist? Don't think it can't happen... it will if PAP loses a GE. Would you STILL want to be here then?

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Postby the lynx » Thu, 14 Aug 2014 9:09 am

zzm9980 wrote:
curiousgeorge wrote:7) Hot Asians! There are way more of them here.


:cool:


:cool:

Agree. Hot Asians.

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Postby JR8 » Thu, 14 Aug 2014 10:20 am

Lol.... wife oso say lah

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 14 Aug 2014 10:23 am

the lynx wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:
curiousgeorge wrote:7) Hot Asians! There are way more of them here.


:cool:


:cool:

Agree. Hot Asians.


Yup! gotta agree. :devil:

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Postby ScoobyDoes » Thu, 14 Aug 2014 10:52 am

Primrose Hill wrote:
JR8 wrote:
Primrose Hill wrote: Therefore no IHT/CGT etc etc liabilities at a later date.


The CGT-waiver for non-residents (UK citizens or not) is closing in March 2015.

Yup.
IHT is also another big hitter right



IHT can be ignored IF everything is planned, and, let's say, your plan is not to return to Blightly but live/retire elsewhere.

Certainly under (current) Scottish law a citizen only has to "show intent" of remaining outside the UK (I'll study all this gain some time after the referendum in a couple of weeks ;) ) thereby gaining a "Domicile of Choice". Taxes are then based on your new jurisdiction.

At this moment I agree with both MiAmigo and Addadude that the 'All or Nothing' approach from the SG government puts me and many off and many things can happen. The economy here is at a cross roads, where it can either grow on improved productivity or sink like a stone on increased costs. PR is enough to satisfy all worlds whilst giving flexibility in later life.
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Postby curiousgeorge » Fri, 15 Aug 2014 9:53 am

Of course I can sympathise and understand the various objections, and this topic is a very subjective one.

But for myself, when I hear arguments like "UK immigration law may change in the future" and "the current economic climate might change" I hear a lot of ifs and buts, but those arguments do nothing to convince me that I ever want to go back to the UK, or that the UK has fixed its problems.

Simply put, Singapore offers a far better quality of life for me. Sure, down the road that might not be true but I doubt the UK will suddenly get its act together.

I also hear a lot of reservations from people who are married and/or PRs here on substantial salaries. My circumstances are different.

I am single. This means my economic clout and ability to buy an HDB is curtailed. No way I can afford a condo, HDB is the only realistic option but only if I become a citizen and qualify as a single over 35. Perhaps if I was married I would think differently (coz couples can buy an HDB, some of you included).

Of course, buying an HDB is not sufficient reason to change citizenship but I genuinely have no desire to return to the UK. I have no ties there (other than a rented apartment I haven't visited in 10 yrs), my family is spread between Australia and the USA. I want to retire in SEA and an SG passport is going to be more convenient in that respect.

I feel that PR is supposed to be permanent. Lots of fingers pointing at abusers who seek PR for the benefits, but also lots of owners of those fingers who are PR and enjoying the benefits who won't seek citizenship...so are they are equally guilty of "abusing" the PR system if they have no intention of investing their lives here to the extent of citizenship? Perhaps.

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Postby curiousgeorge » Fri, 15 Aug 2014 9:55 am

Mi Amigo wrote:But to sever your ties back home and commit 'forever' to a 'castle in the sand'? Personally I wouldn't do it, but that's just me.



That's the difference you see. The UK isn't home to me. When I visit and get back on the plane to SG, that is when I feel I am returning home.

And 'castle in the sand'? After 10 years, that is all Singapore is to you?

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Postby curiousgeorge » Fri, 15 Aug 2014 9:59 am

PNGMK wrote:what happens if Singapore turns from the tolerant multi-racial and multi-cultural society into one which is intolerant and racist? Don't think it can't happen... it will if PAP loses a GE. Would you STILL want to be here then?


If that happens, it will truly be on a par with the UK then. When the UKIP represents the UK in Europe, when the ghettoization of the UK is already alarming...if that happens I will have lost nothing. The UK is already intolerant and racist.

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 15 Aug 2014 10:34 am

curiousgeorge wrote:If that happens, it will truly be on a par with the UK then. When the UKIP represents the UK in Europe, when the ghettoization of the UK is already alarming...if that happens I will have lost nothing. The UK is already intolerant and racist.


Wow, so bitter (but not bitter enough to stop you buying property there right? :))

UKIP is (or was until recently) a tiny Euro-sceptic 'protest' party. It never will 'represent' the UK in Europe*; it's reason for existing is solely to debunk the lies that spill forth from The Establishment; the boot-licking of the Germano-French hegemony.

UKIP having 24/73 UK seats in the EU (isn't that glorious, now 1/3rd of UK-MEPs are tasked with getting the UK out of the EU lol), simply tells you how much most Brits disfavour becoming an anonymous state within a European union. It's nothing to do with racism, it's about not wanting the Germans and French dictating what time shops can open and close in England, the permissible maximum curvature of bananas that we import from our colonies, and 1,000,001 other ridiculous things.

Ghettoization in the UK? Oh you mean how so many Indians/Sub-Cons choose to live in Leeds/Bradford, and not go and live where white people live? Yah, why do they do that? It's (arguably) really ruined those cities.

'Intolerant and racist', compared to where? Here? India, Germany? God forbid Eastern Europe, France, South Africa (actually make that all of Africa lol), the US? .... I can't think...



* One of their founding promises was that if they get the UK out of the EU, then the party will dissolve itself.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 15 Aug 2014 2:19 pm

curiousgeorge wrote:Of course I can sympathise and understand the various objections, and this topic is a very subjective one.

But for myself, when I hear arguments like "UK immigration law may change in the future" and "the current economic climate might change" I hear a lot of ifs and buts, but those arguments do nothing to convince me that I ever want to go back to the UK, or that the UK has fixed its problems.

Simply put, Singapore offers a far better quality of life for me. Sure, down the road that might not be true but I doubt the UK will suddenly get its act together.

I also hear a lot of reservations from people who are married and/or PRs here on substantial salaries. My circumstances are different.

I am single. This means my economic clout and ability to buy an HDB is curtailed. No way I can afford a condo, HDB is the only realistic option but only if I become a citizen and qualify as a single over 35. Perhaps if I was married I would think differently (coz couples can buy an HDB, some of you included).

Of course, buying an HDB is not sufficient reason to change citizenship but I genuinely have no desire to return to the UK. I have no ties there (other than a rented apartment I haven't visited in 10 yrs), my family is spread between Australia and the USA. I want to retire in SEA and an SG passport is going to be more convenient in that respect.

I feel that PR is supposed to be permanent. Lots of fingers pointing at abusers who seek PR for the benefits, but also lots of owners of those fingers who are PR and enjoying the benefits who won't seek citizenship...so are they are equally guilty of "abusing" the PR system if they have no intention of investing their lives here to the extent of citizenship? Perhaps.


I'm one of those. But I view it a bit differently. I came here at the peak of my productivity cycle (36) and have work with/for within Singapore and the region (with a Singapore base) for the past 32 years putting me above retirement age. I'm still working and I'm still a PR for 20+ years of the 32 I've been here. If they would have allowed dual citizenship I'd have taken up citizenship here many years ago, but sadly, they still have an inward looking mindset.

Therefore, in rebuttal, I'd have to say, rather than me being a long term abuser of the system, I'm actually looking at still contributing to the little red dot after my retirement. How? Easy. I'm spent as far as what I can contribute to the economy here both knowledge wise and productivity wise, therefore, when I retire, to continue to contribute to the little Red Dot, I'll leave the island and return to the US. This frees up some space for somebody else who CAN pick up where I left off, as it were. I help to relieve some of the strain on the infrastructure, like roads, mass transit, housing, medical facilities (when I'll probably be needing it more than in the past. I contributed to the TFR (2 adult children, one cannon fodder and the other a bun oven) My son is now a navy reservist. I cannot do any more for the country. So, if I leave, how can I be considered an abuser? Slightly different slant on it. After over 3 decades of contributions to this country, and there are a lot like me, I don't think I could ever be considered an abuser. ;-)

In fact, considering how much has been taken away, withdrawn, or reduced regarding "perks", I'd actually say, I'm the one that has been abused. :-|

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 15 Aug 2014 3:58 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote: I help to relieve some of the strain on the infrastructure, like roads, mass transit, housing, medical facilities.



.... you forgot 'and downtown pubs'.

:cool:

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 15 Aug 2014 5:02 pm

:devil: :shit:

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Postby Mi Amigo » Fri, 15 Aug 2014 7:05 pm

curiousgeorge wrote:
Mi Amigo wrote:But to sever your ties back home and commit 'forever' to a 'castle in the sand'? Personally I wouldn't do it, but that's just me.



That's the difference you see. The UK isn't home to me. When I visit and get back on the plane to SG, that is when I feel I am returning home.

The UK isn't home to me either, although I still feel a connection to the old country and from personal experience I think all the horror stories are over-blown. My personal choice is to spend my 'second life' in another European country, where the weather is far better than in both the UK and Singapore (I don't want to be cold, or live in a sauna, in my old age). Even if the UKIP nutters get their way and the UK withdraws from the EU, it would almost certainly remain in the EEA, in which case my British passport would hopefully still allow me to live in my European country of choice. Singapore passport? More hoops to jump through methinks, and for what benefit?

Having said that, I completely respect AoA's decision to take up SG citizenship; everyone has their own priorities and makes their own decisions. The purpose of my comments was to challenge some of the statements of justification, which whilst having some validity right now, might not always hold water.

curiousgeorge wrote:And 'castle in the sand'? After 10 years, that is all Singapore is to you?

My comment was about the Singaporean economy, and the hubris (some would say arrogance) in assuming that it will continue to rise inexorably. I'm reminded of the old saying that everyone has their day in the sun - I'm not saying that it will definitely crash, only that its long term health cannot be guaranteed. Ironically right now the UK economy is one of the fastest growing in the G7, but again I'm not assuming that will carry on forever either.

My time in Singapore has been a valuable part of my life, and overall a very good experience. But circumstances change and right now I'm spending some time off the red dot for reasons that I will not go into on a public forum. So in my case, it doesn't make sense to be there at the moment. That might change in the future, or it might not; hard to say at this point.

curiousgeorge wrote:The UK is already intolerant and racist.

Not like Singapore then, eh? :P :roll: IME the latter is way more in that category than the former; it's just that until the advent of TRE, TRS and other similar outlets for anonymous vitriol, all the bigotry and xenophobia was hidden behind false smiles. In the UK, where it occurs, it is more blatant and in your face.
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