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British to Singapore Citizenship

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
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Postby Primrose Hill » Tue, 12 Aug 2014 11:40 am

Why such drastic steps?
Surely keeping the BC is quite worth and keep the SG REP

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Re: British to Singapore Citizenship

Postby zzm9980 » Wed, 13 Aug 2014 12:09 am

PNGMK wrote:
Beeroclock wrote:
AoA wrote:British
Lived in Singapore 5 years
Singapore PR 2 years
Education: degree level +
Salary: 250K+p/y
Working for a Singaporean company
Single
27y/o

I intend to spend the rest of my working life in Singapore so being a citizen makes sense for many reasons.


i'm also interested on the rationale for this, although it's not the reason for your post... You seem to have firmly decided, but personally I wouldn't rush into this. There are many points in life where I've had seemingly fixed intentions, that have completely changed 5 years later and I look back and can barely even remember what I was thinking back then. You are young and single with excellent earnings and a lot of life ahead... i'd just be double sure on this decision, are the benefits really worth the costs and what is the downside of waiting /staying as PR.


I'm wondering if OP is after this;

http://www.migrationexpert.com/work_vis ... visa_h1b1/


Somehow I doubt that. A qualified British candidate would likely not have much trouble getting a job in the US. Even if, those H1B1s will be all snapped up long before he could even start to make progress on the citizenship app.

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Postby FaeLLe » Wed, 13 Aug 2014 1:16 am

Yea H1B1 is not *that great* of an advantage.
Especially considering it is a short term non immigrant visa category.

If he earning that amount he might as well invest in cow milk farm in some remote village in the USA and get an investor visa that provides a path to an expedited green card.

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Re: British to Singapore Citizenship

Postby PNGMK » Wed, 13 Aug 2014 9:58 am

zzm9980 wrote:
PNGMK wrote:
Beeroclock wrote:
AoA wrote:British
Lived in Singapore 5 years
Singapore PR 2 years
Education: degree level +
Salary: 250K+p/y
Working for a Singaporean company
Single
27y/o

I intend to spend the rest of my working life in Singapore so being a citizen makes sense for many reasons.


i'm also interested on the rationale for this, although it's not the reason for your post... You seem to have firmly decided, but personally I wouldn't rush into this. There are many points in life where I've had seemingly fixed intentions, that have completely changed 5 years later and I look back and can barely even remember what I was thinking back then. You are young and single with excellent earnings and a lot of life ahead... i'd just be double sure on this decision, are the benefits really worth the costs and what is the downside of waiting /staying as PR.


I'm wondering if OP is after this;

http://www.migrationexpert.com/work_vis ... visa_h1b1/


Somehow I doubt that. A qualified British candidate would likely not have much trouble getting a job in the US. Even if, those H1B1s will be all snapped up long before he could even start to make progress on the citizenship app.


The Singapore quote of H1B1's is the most underused US work visa - there's are thousands left for grabs. This is part of the reason Singapore became a stepping stone for subcons.

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Postby AoA » Wed, 13 Aug 2014 11:52 am

Well some of your suggestions are certainly interesting...

But none are correct. To change citizenship for pure monetary gain would be a little shallow in my opinion. It's also not a stepping stone to another country.

There are many advantages personally - to name just a few: I can start a family in a safe environment. I can travel more freely throughout Asia. I can afford to build a proper home and build up savings/retirement plans in a secure economy. I can feel protected and valued within a nation of relatively likeminded individuals.

One final reason, not a major defining factor but has helped conclude my decision... It would inappropriate to go into too much detail, but several industries are growing very fast in Asia and as a manager I have been subtly warned of a 'glass ceiling' to my progression within them as more and more companies become sensitive to the backgrounds that make up their team.

The one thing I respect most about Singapore is how they have taken steps to protect their people (obviously not everyone feels the same and I'm not wanting to turn this thread into government bashing, please). If anything I feel the opposite has happened in the UK, a major reason for my departure.

If you compare all of the above with the downsides of losing BC, I feel the decision is obvious.

As I have said, I intend to spend the rest of my life here. I have known Singapore for far longer than 5 years (my family helped establish a major international Singaporean brand some 40 years ago) and I am sure I have found my home.

I'm quite sure that none of the above is particularly relevant to the original post but seeing as you all took the time to help me, I thought I would share a little.

P.S. I'm still looking for contact details for a skilled local immigration expert who knows Singaporean and UK immigration policies! Please PM!

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Postby zzm9980 » Wed, 13 Aug 2014 12:16 pm

AoA wrote:Well some of your suggestions are certainly interesting...

But none are correct. To change citizenship for pure monetary gain would be a little shallow in my opinion. It's also not a stepping stone to another country.

There are many advantages personally - to name just a few: I can start a family in a safe environment. I can travel more freely throughout Asia. I can afford to build a proper home and build up savings/retirement plans in a secure economy. I can feel protected and valued within a nation of relatively likeminded individuals.

One final reason, not a major defining factor but has helped conclude my decision... It would inappropriate to go into too much detail, but several industries are growing very fast in Asia and as a manager I have been subtly warned of a 'glass ceiling' to my progression within them as more and more companies become sensitive to the backgrounds that make up their team.

The one thing I respect most about Singapore is how they have taken steps to protect their people (obviously not everyone feels the same and I'm not wanting to turn this thread into government bashing, please). If anything I feel the opposite has happened in the UK, a major reason for my departure.

If you compare all of the above with the downsides of losing BC, I feel the decision is obvious.

As I have said, I intend to spend the rest of my life here. I have known Singapore for far longer than 5 years (my family helped establish a major international Singaporean brand some 40 years ago) and I am sure I have found my home.

I'm quite sure that none of the above is particularly relevant to the original post but seeing as you all took the time to help me, I thought I would share a little.

P.S. I'm still looking for contact details for a skilled local immigration expert who knows Singaporean and UK immigration policies! Please PM!


You sound extremely convincing, but the search for a "backdoor back in" more than what British Law already gives you casts doubt on that IMO.

I'm also curious about the glass ceiling thing. Are you ethnically caucasian or Chinese? (or something else?) If you're not Chinese, that glass ceiling is going to hurt you more than your passport.

And where in Asia is the red passport better than your British passport? Is the 7-day VoA for mainland China really worth it over what you get in the EU with freedom of movement and work?

I also think that culturally if you don't serve NS you'll always be looked at as an outsider by many no matter your skin or passport color. Why don't you go see if you can enlist now? If you feel so strongly about it and are concerned about glass ceilings, two years of NS will probably help break those barriers down.

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Postby JR8 » Wed, 13 Aug 2014 12:25 pm

AoA wrote:There are many advantages personally - to name just a few: I can start a family in a safe environment. I can travel more freely throughout Asia. I can afford to build a proper home and build up savings/retirement plans in a secure economy. I can feel protected and valued within a nation of relatively likeminded individuals.


- You could start one now too, I'm not sure if having a red passport makes a difference.

- Is this place 'safe', I don't know? Military planes fly up, down and around everyday, presumably to remind us all how vulnerable we are.

- Travel with ASEAN might be simpler on an SG passport. But the flipside is that it might be more complex on other continents (you should hear my SGn wife griping when I waft through zero-queue immigration, and she with her 'Bongo-land passport' gets to queue for ever and a day).

- I'm not sure what 'building a proper home' means. Is this getting discounts for being a citizen, or are you planning on building a house?

- You could 'build savings/retirement plans' within SG or just about anywhere else, where-ever you lived. Perhaps you can narrow down the specific advantage you see?

- You grew up in England, but here 'feel [presumably more] protected and valued by like-minded individuals'? I'd love to hear how that works, call me a cynic, but I'm sure that's a first for me.

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Postby JR8 » Wed, 13 Aug 2014 12:34 pm

Smells like there's an undisclosed sub-plot going on. You (and I) can see the story as it is doesn't hang together as being credible or persuasive.

My impression is we're being used as a sounding-board re: part of a greater undisclosed plan.

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Postby Beeroclock » Wed, 13 Aug 2014 12:36 pm

AoA wrote:Well some of your suggestions are certainly interesting...

But none are correct. To change citizenship for pure monetary gain would be a little shallow in my opinion. It's also not a stepping stone to another country.

There are many advantages personally - to name just a few: I can start a family in a safe environment. I can travel more freely throughout Asia. I can afford to build a proper home and build up savings/retirement plans in a secure economy. I can feel protected and valued within a nation of relatively likeminded individuals.

One final reason, not a major defining factor but has helped conclude my decision... It would inappropriate to go into too much detail, but several industries are growing very fast in Asia and as a manager I have been subtly warned of a 'glass ceiling' to my progression within them as more and more companies become sensitive to the backgrounds that make up their team.

The one thing I respect most about Singapore is how they have taken steps to protect their people (obviously not everyone feels the same and I'm not wanting to turn this thread into government bashing, please). If anything I feel the opposite has happened in the UK, a major reason for my departure.

If you compare all of the above with the downsides of losing BC, I feel the decision is obvious.

As I have said, I intend to spend the rest of my life here. I have known Singapore for far longer than 5 years (my family helped establish a major international Singaporean brand some 40 years ago) and I am sure I have found my home.

I'm quite sure that none of the above is particularly relevant to the original post but seeing as you all took the time to help me, I thought I would share a little.

P.S. I'm still looking for contact details for a skilled local immigration expert who knows Singaporean and UK immigration policies! Please PM!

thanks for sharing the further background. good luck

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Postby singapore eagle » Wed, 13 Aug 2014 12:57 pm

AoA wrote:P.S. I'm still looking for contact details for a skilled local immigration expert who knows Singaporean and UK immigration policies! Please PM!


Others may correct me, but I'm pretty sure that the consensus on this board is that there is no such thing in Singapore - at least not someone that you pay money to.

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Postby AoA » Wed, 13 Aug 2014 1:07 pm

ZZM - "Backdoor back in" - like I said in my first post. I was trying to clarify a statement from the ICA's actual website. Quite a long way from trying to circumvent the rules. I naively thought that not being able to use your citizenship be the same as surrendering it completely and a far more practical solution.

Sure NS service holds me back from being truly Singaporean. If my company allowed me to take a 2 year break I can't think of anything more exciting. Of course this is all just mouth music and I'm quite sure you won't believe me unless I actually go and sign up.

I am caucasian (in retrospect this information would have been helpful earlier on). There are 36 nationalities working in my group and we have worked very hard to make sure all are employed equally and on permanent contracts. It is the upper levels posts that seniors would rather be held by Singaporeans. Ethnicity is not important - believe me.

JR8 - thanks for your thoughts. You are entirely entitled to your own opinion but I can assure you. Short of telling you inside leg measurement there isn't any more relevant information and no great plan of world domination or other conspiracy.

Money-wise - it's all about perspective. All my pension entitlements were removed just before I left the UK. The best savings rate on £100K+ is 0.5% and property prices change like the weather.
Paying 3% instead of 8% stamp duty makes the likelihood of home ownership a bit more realistic. No I don't need a red passport to procreate... a few more days off would help though! Safety is subjective I guess. Rioting outside my old home in UK that went on relatively unchecked for over a week wasn't a great advert for the UK. Last time I went back to the UK I queued for nearly twice as long as my colleague who holds a Singaporean passport, so swings and roundabouts. And yes, finally, I have more likeminded friends here than I do in the UK - each to their own.

I'm sorry you think I'm deceiving you and that my story "doesn't hang together". I guess I'll have to hope the people at the ICA don't take a cynical view of my honesty.

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Postby nakatago » Wed, 13 Aug 2014 1:20 pm

AoA wrote: I guess I'll have to hope the people at the ICA don't take a cynical view of my honesty.


They're the number 1 reason* why people are so cynical on NS/citizen advice in the first place!

*number 2 is the sheer number of Indians collecting PRs and citizenships, some of which obliviously broadcast the fact that they do when they ask here. A lot of Chinese do it as well (from anecdotal evidence) but you won't find them posting that they do on at least English language forums

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Postby FaeLLe » Wed, 13 Aug 2014 1:27 pm

If you are Caucasian and look Caucasian no one will consider you Singaporean, even if you have a red passport and pink NRIC.

Especially if you are doing this to foster business relationships for your firm on their behalf it might be counter productive when they try sell you as a Singaporean to others.
You will just be seen as an FT who took PR, did not do NS and now became Singaporean.

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Postby Primrose Hill » Wed, 13 Aug 2014 1:40 pm

AoA, your replies sort of resonate with me, sort of I say. I am a Msian chinese but grew up in UK. I acknowledge that I am a banana here- yellow on the outside but white inside.
Is there a glass ceiling here? Yes. However, the glass ceiling in a international company like the one I work at is similar to the glass ceiling that I encountered in London. Back in London, its because I am not white and a woman. Here, due to the industry that I work in, its also because I am not white. Or worse I am not chinese enough. And you know what I agree, I am no longer chinese enough. My chinese believes and values were 80s, the day I stepped off the plane at Heathrow.
Safety - this I agree with you wholeheartedly but that's not to say that there's no crime here. There's crime and drugs here, just as any major cities, here it is just swept under the carpets more. I live in north london, the swanky trendy part and my mom has been mugged 3times in broad daylight, stone throw from home.
Housing - don't kid yourself. We have a nice house here and we had a nice house in London, both are similar in prices. It's marginally cheaper here than in London but that purely due to the forex. property tax/council tax is slightly cheaper here compared to London. Stamp duty is roughly the same. ABSD is 5%I think for PR, not 8%, not sure. a decent size home in central london, with a slightly bigger postage stamp patio and enough space on the inside to swing 2cats will set you back more than GBP2m. The same here. The difference is the stamp duty for us.
The main difference here is the CGT, IHT, CPF. Savings wise, there are tons of offshore investment funds that gives you security and interest rates more than 0.5%.
IMHO, I wouldnt trade in my BC for SG one.

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Postby JR8 » Wed, 13 Aug 2014 1:42 pm

AoA wrote:The best savings rate on £100K+ is 0.5% and property prices change like the weather.


It's simple yielding 5%+ buying a dozen/score of sound/proven/major FTSE-100 stocks. I currently net 5.5%, or 11* your 'best rate', a margin you might wish to consider.

UK property values seem no more volatile than SG ones, IME

Stocks like property, if you're in for the duration it doesn't matter what happens to values in the near-term. IME rents rarely drop, I've only seen it once in London, it was marginal, c2001/2002, and it was short-term.

What matters with stocks is not whether they are valued at $100, $25 or dip 5% this week or indeed rise by that, but that they keep paying a reliable and rising dividend; good companies do this.


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