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British to Singapore Citizenship

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AoA
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British to Singapore Citizenship

Postby AoA » Sun, 10 Aug 2014 12:09 pm

I've tried search through the forum but can't seem to find an exact answer to my problem. I have also tried calling the ICA/British High Commission and no one seems able to give me a clear answer.

British
Lived in Singapore 5 years
Singapore PR 2 years
Education: degree level +
Salary: 250K+p/y
Working for a Singaporean company
Single
27y/o

I intend to spend the rest of my working life in Singapore so being a citizen makes sense for many reasons.

During the process of gaining SC I understand I am supposed to renounce my British citizenship. However I have been told by many people that this isn't necessary. Just surrendering your documents to a high commision is satisfactory. Most of these people are Australian but the process isn't the same as British and none of them were recent.

The ICA's website:

"Original and a photocopy of the Renunciation letter of foreign citizenship and/or letter stating the surrender of the foreign passport from the authorities concerned "

When I spoke to them directly, the letter stating the surrender of the foreign ID's is apparently not sufficient. I would have to send a letter to the immigration office in Liverpool, recorded delivery and show evidence that the letter arrived. Once I have become a citizen I must sign a form saying I will forward the letter from the UK confirming the renunciation of my British citizenship as soon as I receive it (up to 6 months later).

Whilst just surrendering documents and not fully renouncing would constitute dual nationality, you effectively can't use your original nationality without documentation.

Basically... I want to know if it's possible to 'keep' my british citizenship, effectively on hold as a contingency plan in case the worst happens (I or family member gets ill or I am not longer able to work for some reason).

I understand the rules on dual nationality. I would appreciate factual experiences/information.

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Re: British to Singapore Citizenship

Postby zzm9980 » Sun, 10 Aug 2014 1:14 pm

AoA wrote:I understand the rules on dual nationality. I would appreciate factual experiences/information.


You will find that posts about criminal intent are frowned upon here. What you're proposing is highly illegal in Singapore, and would cause you all kinds of trouble if you were somehow caught.

Since you've now seen the error of your ways and won't try to pursue something illegal , have you read about "Resumption"? That's actually a legal way to do exactly what you want. Assuming at least you haven't done it already :D

RESUMPTION
13. If you renounced your British citizenship or British overseas territories citizenship (see
Note 2 below), you may have a right to resume (i.e. regain) the citizenship you renounced – but
you can make use of this only once. If you have previously resumed one of these citizenships,
and then renounced again, the Home Secretary (for British citizenship) or the Governor of the
relevant British overseas territory (for British overseas territories citizenship) will decide whether
you will be allowed to resume it again.


https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... 9/bn18.pdf

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zzm9980
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Re: British to Singapore Citizenship

Postby zzm9980 » Sun, 10 Aug 2014 1:15 pm

AoA wrote:I've tried search through the forum but can't seem to find an exact answer to my problem. I have also tried calling the ICA/British High Commission and no one seems able to give me a clear answer.

British
Lived in Singapore 5 years
Singapore PR 2 years
Education: degree level +
Salary: 250K+p/y
Working for a Singaporean company
Single
27y/o

I intend to spend the rest of my working life in Singapore so being a citizen makes sense for many reasons.

During the process of gaining SC I understand I am supposed to renounce my British citizenship. However I have been told by many people that this isn't necessary. Just surrendering your documents to a high commision is satisfactory. Most of these people are Australian but the process isn't the same as British and none of them were recent.

The ICA's website:

"Original and a photocopy of the Renunciation letter of foreign citizenship and/or letter stating the surrender of the foreign passport from the authorities concerned "

When I spoke to them directly, the letter stating the surrender of the foreign ID's is apparently not sufficient. I would have to send a letter to the immigration office in Liverpool, recorded delivery and show evidence that the letter arrived. Once I have become a citizen I must sign a form saying I will forward the letter from the UK confirming the renunciation of my British citizenship as soon as I receive it (up to 6 months later).

Whilst just surrendering documents and not fully renouncing would constitute dual nationality, you effectively can't use your original nationality without documentation.

Basically... I want to know if it's possible to 'keep' my british citizenship, effectively on hold as a contingency plan in case the worst happens (I or family member gets ill or I am not longer able to work for some reason).

I understand the rules on dual nationality. I would appreciate factual experiences/information.


And not to be a jerk, but quoting your post for future searches incase you do an "edit and run" to try and remove your question. Sorry, but people do that sometimes around here.

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Postby AoA » Sun, 10 Aug 2014 1:47 pm

Thanks for your reply - I'm quite happy to have it quoted but I have no intention of removing the original post.

Regarding the illegality of what I'm suggesting, I apologise if this is seen as breaking the rules of the forum (and of my first ever post!).

The quote from my first post is directly from the ICA website... Regarding the "and/or" surrender of documentation. So what I'm proposing is not illegal (otherwise one assumes the ICA would remove the sentence). I assumed from this sentence they don't consider it dual nationality if they can prevent you from using your original nationality?

I just don't want to surrender anything that I don't have to.

Regarding resumption - it's definitely an option but my concern is that if things in Europe turn nasty (nastier!) then it may not be approved and even if it is then it could take quite some time. Do you know anyone who has tried it?

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Strong Eagle
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Postby Strong Eagle » Sun, 10 Aug 2014 9:29 pm

You should read this thread, top to bottom... quite a bit of relevant information.

ftopic102868.html&highlight=

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Postby JR8 » Sun, 10 Aug 2014 11:19 pm

AoA wrote:Regarding resumption - it's definitely an option but my concern is that if things in Europe turn nasty (nastier!) then it may not be approved and even if it is then it could take quite some time. Do you know anyone who has tried it?



Are you UK born and bred, or using it's citizenship as a stepping stone?

Just asking as I know ICA looks for 'patterns of behaviour'.

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Postby FaeLLe » Sun, 10 Aug 2014 11:45 pm

Posts of this kind are frowned upon here, but you have a solution.

You can renounce your british citizenship and get a right of abode in UK stamped on your Singapore passport.

This will let you retain all those privileges (or almost most of them except things like EEA freedom of movement) and still hold a Singapore passport.

The steps for this are as follows,
- Apply for a Confirmation of British nationality status and get the certificate ( https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... update.pdf )
- Get a IPA for Singapore citizenship
- Renounce British nationality
- Get Singapore passport and pink NRIC after ceremony
- Submit an application for a certificate showing right of adobe and tell Her Majesty's home office that you were forced to renounce your nationality ( https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... t-of-abode )
- Get the right of adobe stamped on your Singapore passport that frees you from immigration control

Let us know how it works, you sould consult a UK immigration lawyer.

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Postby Strong Eagle » Mon, 11 Aug 2014 1:47 am

FaeLLe wrote:You can renounce your british citizenship and get a right of abode in UK stamped on your Singapore passport.

This will let you retain all those privileges (or almost most of them except things like EEA freedom of movement) and still hold a Singapore passport.


I just don't think that this is correct. Having the right of abode stamped in your Singapore passport would mean that you have taken advantage of your British citizenship, and according to section 135, you could be stripped of your UK citizenship for having done that.

Deprivation of «citizenship on exercise of rights of foreign nationals, etc.
135.—(1) The Government may, by order, deprive a citizen of Singapore of his «citizenship if the Government is satisfied that —

(a)
he has, while of or over the age of 18 years, at any time after 6th April 1960 voluntarily claimed and exercised any rights (other than any rights in connection with the use of a passport) available to him under the law of any country outside Singapore being rights accorded exclusively to the citizens or nationals of that country;

(b)
he has, while of or over the age of 18 years, at any time after 6th April 1960 applied to the authorities of a place outside Singapore for the issue or renewal of a passport or used a passport issued by such authorities as a travel document; or
(c)
he is of or over the age of 18 years and has, whether before or after attaining the age of 18 years, been ordinarily resident outside Singapore for a continuous period of 10 years (including any period of residence outside Singapore before 2nd January 1986) and has not at any time —
(i)
during that period or thereafter entered Singapore by virtue of a certificate of status or travel document issued by the competent authorities of Singapore; or
(ii)
during that period been in the service of the Government or of an international organisation of which Singapore is a member or of such other body or organisation as the President may, by notification in the Gazette, designate.
(2) For the purposes of clause (1) (a), the exercise of a vote in any political election in a place outside Singapore shall be deemed to be the voluntary claim and exercise of a right available under the law of that place.
(3) Where the Government has made an order under this Article depriving a citizen of Singapore of his «citizenship, he shall cease to be a citizen with effect from the date of the order.

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Postby FaeLLe » Mon, 11 Aug 2014 3:33 am

Strong Eagle wrote:I just don't think that this is correct. Having the right of abode stamped in your Singapore passport would mean that you have taken advantage of your British citizenship, and according to section 135, you could be stripped of your UK citizenship for having done that.


That's a bit subjective, he could claim right of abode by ancestral entitlement to it.

It just shows they are entitled to be a citizen (and could possibly have that right as per law) but not really a citizen.

But you are right, knowing Singapore it is probably a risk to have it.

In either case the person can always take advantage of the once in a lifetime opportunity to restore their British nationality (unless immigration laws change).

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Postby Strong Eagle » Mon, 11 Aug 2014 6:01 am

FaeLLe wrote:That's a bit subjective, he could claim right of abode by ancestral entitlement to it.


If he were to renounce his citizenship he could no longer to make any claim to right of abode, ancestral or otherwise because he is not a citizen anymore.

If he did not renounce his citizenship but did have right of abode stamped into his passport, then he would be in violation of Singapore law.

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Postby AoA » Mon, 11 Aug 2014 1:32 pm

Thanks for the replies. This information provided has been very useful and interesting.

I'm not sure right of abode (even if I could get it) is particularly helpful. I meant if I needed to move back for good and have all my British privileges/rights/protections re-instated. My Singapore passport would allow me 90 days at least.

I am British born and bred. Lived there for the first 15 years of my life. My family is also all british born and bred. I have lived around the world but never held any other passport/citizenship (haven't found the right place until now).

I think it looks like I will just have to suck it up and give up my British citizenship and hope that if I did one day need it back that the rules haven't changed dramatically. I would like to repeat - my intention was not to try and circumvent the system, just to clarify the rules.

I do want to speak to an immigration lawyer (assuming that's what I need?). Can anyone recommend someone local who preferably has experience of both Singapore and UK immigration policies? PM if necessary.

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Postby PNGMK » Mon, 11 Aug 2014 8:38 pm

Why give up your BC? Don't tell me you're doing it for some poxy box in the sky HDB discount?

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Postby FaeLLe » Mon, 11 Aug 2014 10:29 pm

PNGMK wrote:Why give up your BC? Don't tell me you're doing it for some poxy box in the sky HDB discount?


Exactly, PR sounds best for him unless he wants avoid 0 risk of being forced out or deported.

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Re: British to Singapore Citizenship

Postby Beeroclock » Tue, 12 Aug 2014 10:10 am

AoA wrote:British
Lived in Singapore 5 years
Singapore PR 2 years
Education: degree level +
Salary: 250K+p/y
Working for a Singaporean company
Single
27y/o

I intend to spend the rest of my working life in Singapore so being a citizen makes sense for many reasons.


i'm also interested on the rationale for this, although it's not the reason for your post... You seem to have firmly decided, but personally I wouldn't rush into this. There are many points in life where I've had seemingly fixed intentions, that have completely changed 5 years later and I look back and can barely even remember what I was thinking back then. You are young and single with excellent earnings and a lot of life ahead... i'd just be double sure on this decision, are the benefits really worth the costs and what is the downside of waiting /staying as PR.

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Re: British to Singapore Citizenship

Postby PNGMK » Tue, 12 Aug 2014 10:22 am

Beeroclock wrote:
AoA wrote:British
Lived in Singapore 5 years
Singapore PR 2 years
Education: degree level +
Salary: 250K+p/y
Working for a Singaporean company
Single
27y/o

I intend to spend the rest of my working life in Singapore so being a citizen makes sense for many reasons.


i'm also interested on the rationale for this, although it's not the reason for your post... You seem to have firmly decided, but personally I wouldn't rush into this. There are many points in life where I've had seemingly fixed intentions, that have completely changed 5 years later and I look back and can barely even remember what I was thinking back then. You are young and single with excellent earnings and a lot of life ahead... i'd just be double sure on this decision, are the benefits really worth the costs and what is the downside of waiting /staying as PR.


I'm wondering if OP is after this;

http://www.migrationexpert.com/work_vis ... visa_h1b1/


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