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Singapore citizen and British citizen ?

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sundaymorningstaple
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 23 Jul 2014 10:18 am

Saint wrote:However, I'm convinced that by the time this becomes an issue, Singapore Gahmen would have realised that dual nationality should be allowed, whether initially only when obtained through birth like my boys and the OP's would be a good first step.


I was as well, Saint. Mine are 25 & 30 now. Singapore is still as recalcitrant as ever on the issue. According to an officer at ICA who I've been acquainted with for the past 20+ years, the only country that poses a legal problem is the US as they are the only one who actually automatically acquire citizenship just by registering the birth of a US citizen born abroad with the US Embassy. In the old days they were actually given a proper Birth Certificate and not a naturalization certificate or somesuch. Not sure what is given today, but both of my children have two "birth" certificates as citizens of two countries by birth.

What Singapore CAN and WILL do, if one does throw it up in their faces and try to test their system, is revoke their Singapore Citizenship, deport them, and ban their entry for life. I, personally, don't know why anybody would want to tilt at their windmills as it's a sure lose situation. My son had to register for both NS in Singapore and the US Selective Service as well. While the USSS has been mothballed since 1975 and the US has a completely volunteer military, if he didn't register, he could be prevented in receiving certain grants, points regarding government employment and other benefits accorded to those who registered. My son is now out of the Navy here for just over one year. Hasn't done him any harm at all. ;-)

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Postby singapore eagle » Wed, 23 Jul 2014 10:25 am

SMS: did your kids renounce one of their citizenships at age 21?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 23 Jul 2014 10:29 am


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Postby singapore eagle » Wed, 23 Jul 2014 10:30 am

Sorry, it's not fair to ask a personal question like that.

I suspect your situation and my situation are not unalike - despite the grief you gave me on the last page!!

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Postby zzm9980 » Wed, 23 Jul 2014 10:41 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Not sure what is given today, but both of my children have two "birth" certificates as citizens of two countries by birth.


They get these:

http://travel.state.gov/content/passpor ... birth.html

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 23 Jul 2014 10:43 am

As long time posters here will tell you, we dispense the facts or at least the facts as anecdotal evidence will allow. We all do what our conscience tells us to do at the end. But we cannot recommend anything except the proper course of action. This site was founded on those principles and the moderators try our darnedest to keep it that way. Sometimes what we say is in contradiction to what we may personally feel or ultimately do, but as responsible moderator/members of the forum, we try to give only the facts according to the law here. Quandary? Yep. 'tis a fine line we sometimes walk. Because of this, we are well thought of by the Government and have been linked several times for further information in certain areas on the MOM website. We like our relationship.

I will tell you this, though. Singapore is a country that will mostly close one eye EXCEPT if you throw it up in their faces publicly. They then will go the extra mile to the end of the earth to put you down. This habit was instilled by the father of the country and it is still that way today. They have the laws on the books, but often look the other way until one tries to take them on. Then they will take you to task using every thing in their arsenal (and it is formidable, to say the least, especially when it come to law). :wink:

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 23 Jul 2014 10:54 am

zzm9980 wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:Not sure what is given today, but both of my children have two "birth" certificates as citizens of two countries by birth.


They get these:

http://travel.state.gov/content/passpor ... birth.html


Mine got these:

http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/file ... FS-545.jpg

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Postby zzm9980 » Wed, 23 Jul 2014 11:25 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:Not sure what is given today, but both of my children have two "birth" certificates as citizens of two countries by birth.


They get these:

http://travel.state.gov/content/passpor ... birth.html


Mine got these:

http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/file ... FS-545.jpg


Oh ours looks like a new $100 bill. All kinds of holograms and shifting inks and such.

Honestly I'm not too sure how it could help someone that much. Doesn't the SG Gov demand proof you've renounced your citizenship? Does the US Gov let anyone just show up with one of those and get their citizenship back at any time?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 23 Jul 2014 11:56 am

ZZM, you have mail. :cool:

singapore_expat,

One thing I did, in order to give my kids the longest time possible to make there own decisions as adults was to time the renewals of their Singapore passports so that they received a 10 year passport just prior to reaching their 21st birthday. That way, they were still below the age of majority and could not be accused of falsifying their renewal application as dual citizenship was allowed up to turning 21, if that is any help. They will still have to make a choice at some point down the road and the boy will have to do NS, as mine did. If you are an American you son would also, at age 18, register with the US Selective Service as well. But it's been mothballed since 75 so little worry there of having double jeopardy.

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Postby aster » Wed, 23 Jul 2014 12:07 pm

Saint wrote:I will be applying for the boy's British Passports (I'm still trying to find out the best way of doing this so if anyone on here has been through this experience recently please let me know?).


Just to double-check, you are a UK citizen born in the UK before 1 Jan, 1983, and the kids were born here in Singapore?

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Postby Saint » Wed, 23 Jul 2014 12:12 pm

aster wrote:
Saint wrote:I will be applying for the boy's British Passports (I'm still trying to find out the best way of doing this so if anyone on here has been through this experience recently please let me know?).


Just to double-check, you are a UK citizen born in the UK before 1 Jan, 1983, and the kids were born here in Singapore?


Yes correct, mother is Singaporean

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Postby singapore eagle » Wed, 23 Jul 2014 2:18 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:One thing I did, in order to give my kids the longest time possible to make there own decisions as adults was to time the renewals of their Singapore passports so that they received a 10 year passport just prior to reaching their 21st birthday.


I follow you. Of course, these days, a Singapore passport has a 5-year validity.

I also completely take your points about focusing on the facts and not being antagonistic or provocative. I hope one can tread the fine line between these things if this thread corrects some statements that are sometimes made about dual citizenship that are not factually accurate. I'm thinking especially of statements that "Singapore law does not allow adults to have dual citizenship" and "Dual citizens are required to renounce one of their citizenships at age 21". I just don't think these things are true for people that are dual citizens from birth.

It is more accurate to state that the Singapore government's current policy stance is disapproving of dual citizenship. Anyone that is a dual citizen from birth (as thousands of kids must be these days) would do well to read Article 135 of the Singapore Constitution, which has been posted in this thread several times.

They and their parents must also think carefully about how they fill in the declaration on a Singapore passport application which states "I/The child* have/have not/has/has not* acquired the citizenship of another country", given that knowingly making a false declaration is an offence. NB: this is something that should weigh just as heavily on parents of kids aged 0-16 and adults aged 16-21 as it does adults aged over 21!

Hopefully this thread may be of use to some people out there - I know it has enlightened me.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 23 Jul 2014 3:14 pm

From what I have learned over the years, is that, unless there have been certain changes, there is only one country in which you are presumed to have acquired citizenship before birth the conditions are there. It's the same country that taxes you on your world wide income as well. All the rest, you have to jump through hoops and make an application for same. Speak up or out at your own peril.

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Postby PNGMK » Wed, 23 Jul 2014 3:26 pm

So in my case, my son was born in Australian and hence is an AC by birth. At a young age his mother applied for naturalisation in Singapore and so he is now also a SC. Now... since becoming a SC he has not not done anything to bring on another countries citizenship.. he just has it. I assume at 21 the Singapore government will ask him to renounce his ASC.... but of course, being born in Australia to an Australian father, it's not actually revocable (of course destroying a passport is what Singapore usually requests AFAIK).

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 23 Jul 2014 3:56 pm

Renunciation is the submission of a written affidavit, to the Embassy or counselor office of the other country, whereby you are making a request to the government that you would like to renounce your citizenship. Once that is accepted, and the passport is returned to the country in question, you are then a one country person. I don't know anything about Oz immigration law to comment on that though.


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