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GSM8
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Postby GSM8 » Fri, 25 Jul 2014 12:22 am

ecureilx wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:Marriage is a gamble. It can, however, as noted, be made to work (often happiness does not come into play, though). Arranged marriages are a good example and I know arranged marriages that have gone over half a century. It was never "happiness" but more "acceptance" and the desire to make it work.


words of Wisdom, .. well said.,.

Not happiness, just practicality and mutual need in many cases. Thats why there seems to be the pressure (rightly or wrongly so) to get arranged marriages sealed in place while the couple is still young, before they develop their own independent preferences and set of beliefs

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Postby the lynx » Fri, 25 Jul 2014 8:53 am

GSM8 wrote:
ecureilx wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:Marriage is a gamble. It can, however, as noted, be made to work (often happiness does not come into play, though). Arranged marriages are a good example and I know arranged marriages that have gone over half a century. It was never "happiness" but more "acceptance" and the desire to make it work.


words of Wisdom, .. well said.,.

Not happiness, just practicality and mutual need in many cases. Thats why there seems to be the pressure (rightly or wrongly so) to get arranged marriages sealed in place while the couple is still young, before they develop their own independent preferences and set of beliefs


Yes and logically plausible.

But that were to be me, I'd still rather grow my independence and own set of beliefs, even if it means being with a wrong man and having to start all over again.

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Postby martincymru » Fri, 25 Jul 2014 9:00 am

Has anyone got experience with pre-nuptial agreements?

If you can park the non emotional stuff to one side then all you have to worry about is you agree to disagree.

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For me any decision that results in 51% pleasure, 49% pain is a winner.

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 25 Jul 2014 9:57 am

martincymru wrote:Has anyone got experience with pre-nuptial agreements?


I considered one 'second time around', but was torn by what it would say about my future expectations for the relationship. Yer know, you set-up a pre-nup to protect yourself against marriage breakdown, a few days before getting married. Romantic.

You also need to consider if any pre-nup would be recognised by the jurisdiction in which you are/might be getting divorced. This is why you see 'jurisdiction-shopping', big divorces getting filed in the most advantageous countries. When I last looked into it, the UK doesn't recognise pre-nups beyond a divorce court looking at one and considering it as an 'expression of will/desire/intention' i.e. a direction, rather than something legally binding [sorry, don't know hot to put it better] .

There are others aspects. One gulf for example exists in the US. That hinges on whether you get married in a Spanish-law (historically/based), or English-law (historically/based) state. Roughly speaking English-law states function as per UK law. Spanish law states however have a presumption that all property/assets are shared equally upon marriage - Big Bang style. That's why you hear so much talk out of Hollywood etc of pre-nup's, as CA is a Spanish-law state.

Under English law almost the reverse is true. For example, say I'm worth £50mill, own 10 houses around the world, and have an income of £5mill. And she, she's a wonderful person, but has no assets, she rents her home, and has only a modest income. We marry (M-day), and on M+1, she has no rights over my assets or income. None. If we choose to live in a rented place, maybe even her rented home, and we live a modest lifestyle, such as that she enjoyed before, then she is never (as such) entitled to my assets/income. If however we move into a villa, I buy her a car and a horse, and we take 6 nice holidays a year, then she begins to accrue a right to the lifestyle with which I'm now providing her.

So in a marriage with wealth disparity, if it's shorter, and one party hasn't accrued the kind of embedded right to that lifestyle, then exiting needn't be $$$... and vice versa...


> E+EO. Some of this stuff I was researching 15 years ago. Much is likely to be the same, but some aspects of it are likely to have changed... There is a lot of info on the web if anyone wants to explore this. Everything from the legal statutes, to DIY resource sites, to specific discussion groups...

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Postby Beeroclock » Fri, 25 Jul 2014 10:33 am

JR8 wrote:
martincymru wrote:Has anyone got experience with pre-nuptial agreements?


I considered one 'second time around', but was torn by what it would say about my future expectations for the relationship. Yer know, you set-up a pre-nup to protect yourself against marriage breakdown, a few days before getting married. Romantic.

Has never been something for me to consider personally, but I've always had this kind of thinking too. If one or both parties insist on pre-nup, is the relationship really ready for marriage and/or why bother getting married. I guess in my mind, marriage means all in.

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 25 Jul 2014 10:47 am

Beeroclock wrote:Has never been something for me to consider personally, but I've always had this kind of thinking too. If one or both parties insist on pre-nup, is the relationship really ready for marriage and/or why bother getting married. I guess in my mind, marriage means all in.


I had arrived at your conclusion right after your opening few words - and I fully agree.

If you're considering a pre-nup, maybe you ought to consider why you're getting married in the first place, and in fact whether you should.

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Postby bgd » Fri, 25 Jul 2014 11:32 am

Beeroclock wrote:
Has never been something for me to consider personally, but I've always had this kind of thinking too. If one or both parties insist on pre-nup, is the relationship really ready for marriage and/or why bother getting married. I guess in my mind, marriage means all in.


I guess it can make sense when there is a disparate level of wealth between the 2 parties, e.g. JR8's example.

A friend comes from a very wealthy family. He married very late because he could never be sure that the girl wanted him or his money. I don't know whether he used a pre-nup but I bet he thought about it.

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Postby rajagainstthemachine » Fri, 25 Jul 2014 11:34 am

martincymru wrote:Has anyone got experience with pre-nuptial agreements?

If you can park the non emotional stuff to one side then all you have to worry about is you agree to disagree.

//
For me any decision that results in 51% pleasure, 49% pain is a winner.


I consider pre nupitals a half hearted approach to marriage, if one isn't ready for the whole package then they shouldn't attempt to marry at all.
To get there early is on time and showing up on time is late

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Postby rajagainstthemachine » Fri, 25 Jul 2014 11:41 am

PNGMK wrote:
Travelling together for a few weeks helped me understand my fiance (now wife) on a more day/day level and I would recommend that if your morals allow it.

I personally though do not recommend cohabitating before marriage - old fashioned view - BUT if you're cohabitating marriage sort of is an auto pilot thing


One thing I didn't do was cohabitation with my ex-wife, we lived separately and dated for two years, however looking back I really wished I lived with her before deciding to marry her, it would have changed a lot of decisions.

and good point about traveling together before marrying, that way you'd know how to deal with all the travel hassles, hotel reservations etc as a team rather than individually.
To get there early is on time and showing up on time is late

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Postby the lynx » Fri, 25 Jul 2014 11:49 am

rajagainstthemachine wrote:
PNGMK wrote:
Travelling together for a few weeks helped me understand my fiance (now wife) on a more day/day level and I would recommend that if your morals allow it.

I personally though do not recommend cohabitating before marriage - old fashioned view - BUT if you're cohabitating marriage sort of is an auto pilot thing


One thing I didn't do was cohabitation with my ex-wife, we lived separately and dated for two years, however looking back I really wished I lived with her before deciding to marry her, it would have changed a lot of decisions.

and good point about traveling together before marrying, that way you'd know how to deal with all the travel hassles, hotel reservations etc as a team rather than individually.


So you're saying that you never travelled with your ex-wife prior to your wedding?

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 25 Jul 2014 11:56 am

the lynx wrote:So you're saying that you never travelled with your ex-wife prior to your wedding?


'Close Proximity' if a muslim, i.e. not permitted if not married ('in the eyes of God, that being Allah).

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Postby the lynx » Fri, 25 Jul 2014 12:27 pm

Oh raj is a Muslim?

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Postby GSM8 » Fri, 25 Jul 2014 12:40 pm

JR8 wrote:There are others aspects. One gulf for example exists in the US. That hinges on whether you get married in a Spanish-law (historically/based), or English-law (historically/based) state. Roughly speaking English-law states function as per UK law. Spanish law states however have a presumption that all property/assets are shared equally upon marriage - Big Bang style. That's why you hear so much talk out of Hollywood etc of pre-nup's, as CA is a Spanish-law state.

Under English law almost the reverse is true. For example, say I'm worth £50mill, own 10 houses around the world, and have an income of £5mill. And she, she's a wonderful person, but has no assets, she rents her home, and has only a modest income. We marry (M-day), and on M+1, she has no rights over my assets or income. None. If we choose to live in a rented place, maybe even her rented home, and we live a modest lifestyle, such as that she enjoyed before, then she is never (as such) entitled to my assets/income. If however we move into a villa, I buy her a car and a horse, and we take 6 nice holidays a year, then she begins to accrue a right to the lifestyle with which I'm now providing her.

So in a marriage with wealth disparity, if it's shorter, and one party hasn't accrued the kind of embedded right to that lifestyle, then exiting needn't be $$$... and vice versa...


> E+EO. Some of this stuff I was researching 15 years ago. Much is likely to be the same, but some aspects of it are likely to have changed... There is a lot of info on the web if anyone wants to explore this. Everything from the legal statutes, to DIY resource sites, to specific discussion groups...

California like many states in US is a community property state. At time of divorce, the property accumulated by both parties during the course of marriage is divided. Pre-marriage wealth and inheritance during marriage is not considered, unless it is shared and used as community property. E.g. Rich person marries not-so-rich, and rents a palatial mansion as marital home, the source of funds for the rent are not divided upon divorce. However, rich person buys the mansion and they live in it together, it is included in the assets to be split in half. Alimony and maintenance of lifestyle is a separate issue that arises only when the judge deems there is a "significant difference in lifestyle" that one spouse will suffer, and it ceases when the alimony receiving spouse remarries.

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 25 Jul 2014 1:14 pm

the lynx wrote:Oh raj is a Muslim?


You're saying he isn't? :???:

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 25 Jul 2014 1:18 pm

I would assume he isn't if he's going to show up at the Juban Stand tonight. Though I could be wrong. :cool:


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