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Telokkurau
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NS Sources

Postby Telokkurau » Tue, 15 Jul 2014 8:33 am

Dear all, dear Mad Scientist,

First of all- thank you for all the good work you are doing here. I believe you truly have a significant impact on the life of this community's kids!

My wife (SG citizen) and I (foreigner on EP) are in the lucky situation of expecting twins here in Singapore (boy/girl). They will have dual citizenship by birth (birth will be in SG). To ensure that my kids will have the maximum freedom in choosing what they want to do with their own life in the future I read through your NS guidelines and topics.

I see that you referred to the Singapore Enlistment Act (Violations) when other community members asked you if baby bonus constitutes a socioeconomic benefit. I read through the act. Baby bonuses are indeed not mentioned, but I also can't find "Using a SG passport" to be deemed a socioeconomic benefit. Nor can I find the age of 11 stated as a cutoff for the enjoyment of SG socioeconomic benefits. May I ask you if this information is based on your experience/conversations with MINDEF or is there an official legal definition in Singapore law?

Thanks a lot. Keep up the good work.
Kind Regards.

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taxico
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Re: NS Sources

Postby taxico » Thu, 31 Jul 2014 12:02 am

Telokkurau wrote:Dear all, dear Mad Scientist,

First of all- thank you for all the good work you are doing here. I believe you truly have a significant impact on the life of this community's kids!

My wife (SG citizen) and I (foreigner on EP) are in the lucky situation of expecting twins here in Singapore (boy/girl). They will have dual citizenship by birth (birth will be in SG). To ensure that my kids will have the maximum freedom in choosing what they want to do with their own life in the future I read through your NS guidelines and topics.

I see that you referred to the Singapore Enlistment Act (Violations) when other community members asked you if baby bonus constitutes a socioeconomic benefit. I read through the act. Baby bonuses are indeed not mentioned, but I also can't find "Using a SG passport" to be deemed a socioeconomic benefit. Nor can I find the age of 11 stated as a cutoff for the enjoyment of SG socioeconomic benefits. May I ask you if this information is based on your experience/conversations with MINDEF or is there an official legal definition in Singapore law?

Thanks a lot. Keep up the good work.
Kind Regards.


you might want to try

Chan Hiang Leng Colin v. PP
Seow Wei Sin v. PP
Melvyn Tan v. PP (unreported but you can google for news)

case law is still... law.
Last edited by taxico on Thu, 31 Jul 2014 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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zzm9980
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Re: NS Sources

Postby zzm9980 » Thu, 31 Jul 2014 12:27 am

Telokkurau wrote:Dear all, dear Mad Scientist,

First of all- thank you for all the good work you are doing here. I believe you truly have a significant impact on the life of this community's kids!

My wife (SG citizen) and I (foreigner on EP) are in the lucky situation of expecting twins here in Singapore (boy/girl). They will have dual citizenship by birth (birth will be in SG). To ensure that my kids will have the maximum freedom in choosing what they want to do with their own life in the future I read through your NS guidelines and topics.

I see that you referred to the Singapore Enlistment Act (Violations) when other community members asked you if baby bonus constitutes a socioeconomic benefit. I read through the act. Baby bonuses are indeed not mentioned, but I also can't find "Using a SG passport" to be deemed a socioeconomic benefit. Nor can I find the age of 11 stated as a cutoff for the enjoyment of SG socioeconomic benefits. May I ask you if this information is based on your experience/conversations with MINDEF or is there an official legal definition in Singapore law?

Thanks a lot. Keep up the good work.
Kind Regards.


Using a Singapore passport is most definitely seen as a 'socioeconomic' benefit. Using it over most other passports in the world confers benefits by allowing access to other nations in the world which would instead reject visitors from most countries, or require lengthy visa processes. Whether the child's alternative passport has similar benefits (US or EU) or none at all (most of ASEAN) is irrelevant. What you do with that 'socioeconomic' benefit of using the SG passport (find a job, schooling, or just go shopping or to HK Disneyland) is also irrelevant.

MS has also stated in many other threads that just because it isn't written in the law explicitly does not mean you can assume you don't have to worry about it. Just like the West, laws and statutes are interpreted by enforcing agencies into policies and guidelines. The difference here is that said agencies (MINDEF, ICA, etc) don't transparently publish all of their operating policies and guidelines.

Taxico gave good advice, go read about some similar court cases to see how the laws were enforced.

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taxico
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Postby taxico » Thu, 31 Jul 2014 1:15 am

to: telok kurau

judges in past cases have affirmed, explained and/or given examples of socio-economic benefits...

judges in later cases just need to go with what they believe is equitable and applicable based on previous cases and decide if someone has indeed enjoyed said benefits.

there is (IMO) no need for parliament to spell out the exacting list of what qualifies as the courts have proven to be a good arbiter of what qualifies in each specific case.

there may not even be a desire to make that list, even.

because singaporeans will simply (come on! you know they will!) use it as a guide and judges would have to defer to these parliamentary legislation and effectively allow singaporeans undermine the rule of law...

p/s: i'm pretty sure having a singapore passport or NRIC... even if you never used it... is a benefit... so (IMO) it is best to have never had possession of such documents and never had the government spent a dime on the dual citizenship holder.

the baby bonus, AFAIK, is only given when eligible AND applied for - the money is obviously meant to directly benefit the child (defray "operational/running costs", etc). the government has not and will not (rightly so) insist on shoving a few thousand (?) dollars on the SINGAPOREAN child or its parent(s).

go through the first two cases i mentioned and you will understand what i mean:

i made a typo earlier in the cases i quoted but i have corrected it... it is Seow Wei Sin not Siow Wei Sin.

http://lwb.lawnet.com.sg/legal/lgl/rss/ ... C_207.html

http://www.singaporelaw.sg/sglaw/laws-o ... 0-sghc-312
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