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Can Singapore Muslims swear allegiance to new "Islamic State"?

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Steve1960
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Postby Steve1960 » Tue, 01 Jul 2014 2:50 pm

I am not sure where ISIS is going with this. They have claimed a Muslim state which covers large portions of Syria and Iraq but is basically sand apart from two cities one with an oil refinery.

Add to that they don't actually have control over all of the land they set the boundaries around. Add to that likely military support for Iraq from the US, Russia and maybe Iran for Syria.

They have around 15,000 soldiers spread over a wide area and are making a whole bucket load of enemies.

I can only see this going very badly for them.

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Postby JR8 » Tue, 01 Jul 2014 3:46 pm

I'm curious who is funding them. And also, how they intend to maintain their supply lines, when they appear to be surrounded by opponents on all sides.

I haven't read much about it, but it seems a very unusual situation. I can't think of another instance in modern history of a bunch of disparate fanatics attempting to section off swathes of various countries, in order to create their own radical state! Do they have any formal structure within their forces, or are they just a bunch of loonies with clapped out AKs?

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Postby Steve1960 » Tue, 01 Jul 2014 4:12 pm

JR8 wrote:I'm curious who is funding them. And also, how they intend to maintain their supply lines, when they appear to be surrounded by opponents on all sides.

I haven't read much about it, but it seems a very unusual situation. I can't think of another instance in modern history of a bunch of disparate fanatics attempting to section off swathes of various countries, in order to create their own radical state! Do they have any formal structure within their forces, or are they just a bunch of loonies with clapped out AKs?


I don't know where they get the backing but apparently they are well armed and well trained...................no air support of course which will be a major part of their downfall no doubt.

No idea who funded them up to now but I guess they are stealing pretty much everything as they go now. Robbing banks and taking arms /ammunition etc.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 01 Jul 2014 4:15 pm

JR8, we talking about ISIS or or Israel, 1921 or so? :wink:

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Postby JR8 » Tue, 01 Jul 2014 4:48 pm

Interesting Steve. As all I get to read are the tabloid tales of 'Kevin, the 19 year old loner from Tottenham, reported by his friends to have restyled himself Mohammed abu al-Benghazi [or what ever], now reported to be fighting for the rebels in Iraq'. The closest parallel I can think of were the idealist rebels, of the Spanish Civil War, back in the late 30s.

sundaymorningstaple wrote:JR8, we talking about ISIS or or Israel, 1921 or so? :wink:


I'm going to resist being drawn into this one!!! :wink: [but you know your suggested parallel would fail anyway :P ]

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 01 Jul 2014 6:39 pm

Just trollin'
:P

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Postby zzm9980 » Wed, 02 Jul 2014 4:14 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:JR8, we talking about ISIS or or Israel, 1921 or so? :wink:


Agreed.

This video is good, I almost feel like ISIS "gets it".
http://www.vox.com/2014/7/1/5858638/isi ... anda-video

Of course the point of propaganda is to make people think you "get it", but at least they accomplish that.

Their main point is entirely valid and something lots of people have felt for a while. The arbitrary borders drawn up in the Middle East (thank you England and France) are entirely arbitrary and mean nothing for most of the people living there.

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Postby Mi Amigo » Wed, 02 Jul 2014 5:16 am

...And in a surprise development...

Blair applies to be Caliph
Be careful what you wish for

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Postby PNGMK » Wed, 02 Jul 2014 8:28 am

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%E2 ... _Agreement

Background reading. The borders are complete nonsense drawn up by colonial powers anyways.

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Postby JR8 » Wed, 02 Jul 2014 11:27 am

ZZM
Their main point is entirely valid and something lots of people have felt for a while. The arbitrary borders drawn up in the Middle East (thank you England and France) are entirely arbitrary and mean nothing for most of the people living there.


A slick production indeed, and if I walked there I'd probably have chosen to steal the F350 too. That said all those vehicles will have satellite trackers in them, and I don't think I'd want to be perpetually watching the skies...

Most borders are arbitrary and change over time. Are you suggesting that's illegitimate? What next, Italy should be lauded for reclaiming the entire Roman Empire from Berwick to Basra, Scotland to Iraq ?

I disagree that the ME borders 'mean nothing for most'. If that were so why are they usually enforced so strongly? The only people I've ever encountered who do not recognise borders are the Bedouin people. They don't recognise most laws or 'authority' either, they do precisely as they please, nomads atop their camels.

Should borders mean nothing to SGns? As a starter, should the border between SG and MY be scrapped? Why are borders relevant today, no one here lived here 1,000 years ago, right? ... or do the Indians have a right to reclaim SG, or the Sumatrans, or the Malaysians, or the British? It gets messy eh ... :) :twisted:

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Postby JR8 » Wed, 02 Jul 2014 11:34 am

PNGMK wrote: The borders are complete nonsense drawn up by colonial powers anyways.


So you'll be at the front of the queue to turn in your 'colonial powers' passport?

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Postby rajagainstthemachine » Wed, 02 Jul 2014 11:53 am

Apparently the British did a really bad job of mapping/re-mapping borders, at least this is true for much of India,pakistan,China and Bangladesh and Burma.

There are certain villages on the Indo-Pak bornder where you enter on one side of the house via India and exit the house to Pakistan.

A new world order wouldn't be such a bad Idea after all...
To get there early is on time and showing up on time is late

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Postby zzm9980 » Wed, 02 Jul 2014 12:05 pm

JR8 wrote:ZZM
Their main point is entirely valid and something lots of people have felt for a while. The arbitrary borders drawn up in the Middle East (thank you England and France) are entirely arbitrary and mean nothing for most of the people living there.


A slick production indeed, and if I walked there I'd probably have chosen to steal the F350 too. That said all those vehicles will have satellite trackers in them, and I don't think I'd want to be perpetually watching the skies...

Most borders are arbitrary and change over time. Are you suggesting that's illegitimate? What next, Italy should be lauded for reclaiming the entire Roman Empire from Berwick to Basra, Scotland to Iraq ?

I disagree that the ME borders 'mean nothing for most'. If that were so why are they usually enforced so strongly? The only people I've ever encountered who do not recognise borders are the Bedouin people. They don't recognise most laws or 'authority' either, they do precisely as they please, nomads atop their camels.

Should borders mean nothing to SGns? As a starter, should the border between SG and MY be scrapped? Why are borders relevant today, no one here lived here 1,000 years ago, right? ... or do the Indians have a right to reclaim SG, or the Sumatrans, or the Malaysians, or the British? It gets messy eh ... :) :twisted:


They meant something to the British and French interests in ~1919. They meant nothing to the millions living there for the past thousands of years. "Iraq", "Syria", "Jordan", etc never existed before then. Modern connectivity and technology has made society less apt to forget and accept this like they may have in the past.

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Postby JR8 » Wed, 02 Jul 2014 12:08 pm

rajagainstthemachine wrote:Apparently the British did a really bad job of mapping/re-mapping borders, at least this is true for much of India,pakistan,China and Bangladesh and Burma.
There are certain villages on the Indo-Pak bornder where you enter on one side of the house via India and exit the house to Pakistan.
A new world order wouldn't be such a bad Idea after all...


Gandhi forced the Brits out of India, and Gandhi then forced Partition through.

He decided the borders, no one else.

p.s. and if these borders are so universally disliked, why don't these various '''countries''', simply mutually agree to alter them, or scrap them altogether and unify?

Do you think that likely? Are you going to pioneer a 'Unify the entire sub-continent' movement? :wink: Good luck with that!

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Postby JR8 » Wed, 02 Jul 2014 12:33 pm

zzm9980 wrote: They meant something to the British and French interests in ~1919. They meant nothing to the millions living there for the past thousands of years. "Iraq", "Syria", "Jordan", etc never existed before then. Modern connectivity and technology has made society less apt to forget and accept this like they may have in the past.


Let them throw down the barbed wire, and passport control booths manned by gruff moustached uncles, and unite as one, as you (suggest) they were a mere century ago. 'Ok, roll up, roll up, which is the first one of yer that wants to volunteer to drop all your borders, come on don't be shy!!'


Pick an empire...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Asia
---
'The world's earliest civilizations developed in Western Asia. For most of the last three millennia, the region has been united under one or two powerful states; each one succeeding the last, and at times, eastern and western based polities. The main states in this regard were the Assyrian Empire, the Babylonian Empire, the Achaemenid Empire, Ancient Israel, the Kingdom of Armenia, the Seleucid Empire, the Parthian Empire, the Roman Empire, the Sassanid Empire, the Byzantine Empire, the Umayyad Caliphate, the Abbasid Caliphate, the Safavid Empire, the Afsharid Empire, and the Ottoman Empire.'

With so much history, and so many competitors, it's difficult to know who has the greatest retrospective rights to take over the region again eh?

Me? I'm torn between the Italians and the Jews.


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