Singapore Expats Forum

Do I stand a Chance getting SC :)

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
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sundaymorningstaple
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 27 Jun 2014 1:57 pm

An application by one spouse when both are PRs is pretty much sure to fail.

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Postby the lynx » Fri, 27 Jun 2014 2:10 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:An application by one spouse when both are PRs is pretty much sure to fail.


Going by OP's example, whose wife's PR is not for 2 years yet, should they still apply together when one has PR for many years and the other just got his/her PR? Or they should wait for the latter to reach "full maturity" of 2 REP renewals?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 27 Jun 2014 3:52 pm

I'd say go ahead and apply, but be prepared for rejection initially. But if it were me I'd just wait till both are on the 2nd REP. It's easier than having a rejection and waiting until then wondering if they would be rejected again. But that's just me.

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Postby whizzard » Sun, 29 Jun 2014 11:33 pm

Compared to 5 years ago, it is no longer easy to apply for a Singapore Citizenship or Permanent Residency. I should know.

I am a Malaysian Chinese who came here to study when I was 12 years old and stayed on and competed in the Singapore education system until I graduated from NUS with a bachelors degree. I subsequently got an MBA.

I married a Singaporean Chinese wife and we have a Singaporean Chinese son. This is our respective first marriage and we remain married to each other. I worked for a Singapore GLC and climbed the corporate ladder until a very senior position (Managing Director). I was even posted by the company to head one of its overseas unit for some years. I have since returned and am still employed full time by a foreign firm. Based on my income tax return, I am amongst the top tax paying bracket in Singapore.

Last year, I decided after many years (more than 20 as PR and more than 30 from the day I first came to Singapore) to give up my citizenship and apply for a Singapore citizenship. I decided to apply under the Economic Scheme since I am gainfully employed and earning well above average. I also do not own a HDB flat but a few private properties (we stay in a landed, the rest are investments) and bought private medical insurance for all my family members i.e. I do not leech off the Singapore system and am not eligible for subsidies.

I have been taxed since my first day of work and been paying my taxes diligently. I have not been convicted in any courts nor have I ever been sued or declared a bankrupt.

To my surprise, my application was rejected last year. Seemingly, I ticked all the boxes. Cultural affinity (Malaysian Chinese), education (Singapore O & A levels and NUS graduate), social affinity (Singaporean spouse and son), paid taxes, above average career and no political participation nor affiliation. However, it was still not approved. My only guess and conclusion is my age, I am well above 40 but below 50. I even appealed to the MP serving my constituency but it was similarly rejected. The selection criteria and reasons used by the ICA are opaque. I tapped my network and contacts to find out what happened.

My company tried to employ a well qualified Malaysian Chinese in his thirties based in HK for a position vacated in my team (about $10K per mth). His Employment Pass was rejected despite the company appealing. We eventually ended up hiring a very junior local whom I have trained and am continuing to train through my blood and sweat.

Times have changed. Sentiments have changed. Policies have changed. The Singapore government has become more discerning and selective. I know of many high flyers who have been staying in Singapore for years but have been rejected in their citizenship application (although they have less ticks in their boxes - higher salaries maybe but less cultural affiliation and others). Like I said, it's much harder these days.

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Postby FaeLLe » Sun, 29 Jun 2014 11:46 pm

singh86 wrote:I do not own HDB but I own a condo in fact 2 condos one top 2016

That is quite an achievement if your dob is 1986 (as your nick seems to imply).

Wish you good luck but wait till your first REP is successfully renewed and you are into your second REP.

Also your wife plays an important role
- Wait till she is into second REP too if you want to increase changes
- If she does not apply with you it will impact your SC application and you might not get it

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Postby PNGMK » Mon, 30 Jun 2014 7:58 am

Whizzard - it's your lack PAP affiliation (or apparent lack of allegiance).... GE 2016 needs 100% certain PAP new SC - you are far from that.

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Postby ful babu » Thu, 03 Jul 2014 11:32 am

whizzard wrote:
Times have changed. Sentiments have changed. Policies have changed. The Singapore government has become more discerning and selective. I know of many high flyers who have been staying in Singapore for years but have been rejected in their citizenship application (although they have less ticks in their boxes - higher salaries maybe but less cultural affiliation and others). Like I said, it's much harder these days.


I see this from a different angle, there is nothing more you can give to Singapore .. your son is already Singaporean and he has to /already has served NS. Financially you already have achieved what you could have achieved .. so IMO, if you become a citizen what else you can contribute to Singapore ?

but it just me ...

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Postby FaeLLe » Thu, 03 Jul 2014 2:55 pm

ful babu wrote:
whizzard wrote:
Times have changed. Sentiments have changed. Policies have changed. The Singapore government has become more discerning and selective. I know of many high flyers who have been staying in Singapore for years but have been rejected in their citizenship application (although they have less ticks in their boxes - higher salaries maybe but less cultural affiliation and others). Like I said, it's much harder these days.


I see this from a different angle, there is nothing more you can give to Singapore .. your son is already Singaporean and he has to /already has served NS. Financially you already have achieved what you could have achieved .. so IMO, if you become a citizen what else you can contribute to Singapore ?

but it just me ...


It's quite possible and this is how Asians usually think.
But if this is how the nation runs itself it's non rewarding to those that invested their life and career towards the country.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 03 Jul 2014 5:28 pm

Sadly, I also think ful babu is correct in his assumption and yes, you're right, it's a bad way to run the country, but Singapore has always sucks out everything they could and then spit out the husk/chaff/pits.

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Postby Roland Mat » Sat, 12 Jul 2014 12:56 pm

Whizzard

I am totally felt sorry for your case and also wish to inform you that your case was weird and should not be served as reference.

I have 2 Malaysian Chinese friends who just got their SC recently. Both age mid 40 to 50. Stay here and work here for 20+ years. One with Malaysian wife and one with Singaporean wife. Both with a kid. They just have their basic Engineering degree from NTU. One work in local Bank in property section and One work in local Construction company. They are salaried employee and definitely not "Managing Director" kind of level. As far as I know, they have also been oversea posted for certain number of years.

Both only own HDB and of course I don't they ever committed any crime with bad records. Simple family structure like those typical Singaporean family.

I remember both decided to apply for SC last year Oct 2013 and they both got an approval letter in May and June 2014. I just met them last week in gathering and understand that they are now going through some tours.

I am a frequent visitor in this forum as I am also planning to apply for my PR as well. As such, after reading your case and compared with my friends cases, I have decided to register and post something different. I would say that your experience was an odd one and should not be served as reference.




whizzard wrote:Compared to 5 years ago, it is no longer easy to apply for a Singapore Citizenship or Permanent Residency. I should know.

I am a Malaysian Chinese who came here to study when I was 12 years old and stayed on and competed in the Singapore education system until I graduated from NUS with a bachelors degree. I subsequently got an MBA.

I married a Singaporean Chinese wife and we have a Singaporean Chinese son. This is our respective first marriage and we remain married to each other. I worked for a Singapore GLC and climbed the corporate ladder until a very senior position (Managing Director). I was even posted by the company to head one of its overseas unit for some years. I have since returned and am still employed full time by a foreign firm. Based on my income tax return, I am amongst the top tax paying bracket in Singapore.

Last year, I decided after many years (more than 20 as PR and more than 30 from the day I first came to Singapore) to give up my citizenship and apply for a Singapore citizenship. I decided to apply under the Economic Scheme since I am gainfully employed and earning well above average. I also do not own a HDB flat but a few private properties (we stay in a landed, the rest are investments) and bought private medical insurance for all my family members i.e. I do not leech off the Singapore system and am not eligible for subsidies.

I have been taxed since my first day of work and been paying my taxes diligently. I have not been convicted in any courts nor have I ever been sued or declared a bankrupt.

To my surprise, my application was rejected last year. Seemingly, I ticked all the boxes. Cultural affinity (Malaysian Chinese), education (Singapore O & A levels and NUS graduate), social affinity (Singaporean spouse and son), paid taxes, above average career and no political participation nor affiliation. However, it was still not approved. My only guess and conclusion is my age, I am well above 40 but below 50. I even appealed to the MP serving my constituency but it was similarly rejected. The selection criteria and reasons used by the ICA are opaque. I tapped my network and contacts to find out what happened.

My company tried to employ a well qualified Malaysian Chinese in his thirties based in HK for a position vacated in my team (about $10K per mth). His Employment Pass was rejected despite the company appealing. We eventually ended up hiring a very junior local whom I have trained and am continuing to train through my blood and sweat.

Times have changed. Sentiments have changed. Policies have changed. The Singapore government has become more discerning and selective. I know of many high flyers who have been staying in Singapore for years but have been rejected in their citizenship application (although they have less ticks in their boxes - higher salaries maybe but less cultural affiliation and others). Like I said, it's much harder these days.

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Postby Bakulii » Mon, 04 Aug 2014 10:16 pm

Just sharing that indeed there seems to be no fixed criteria for approving SC application.

I am a Malaysian Chinese aged late 40s, having worked in Singapore for past 5.5 year and being a PR for the last 4. My wife and teenage son also PR for same period. We do not own any HDB or condo.

I have applied solo for SC early Jan 2014 and have just received the in-priciple approval end July. I prefer to allow my son to decide for himself whether to apply for SC after his NS and upon reaching the age of 21. Wife has her own reasons to hold on to her citizenship for now.

I thought my application would be a long shot but was pleasantly surprised to be accepted. Goes to show that every applications are reviewed on its own merits (i think!)

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Postby taxico » Tue, 05 Aug 2014 12:14 am

Bakulii wrote:...I thought my application would be a long shot but was pleasantly surprised to be accepted. Goes to show that every applications are reviewed on its own merits (i think!)


congrats... and you're prolly right.
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Postby Barnsley » Tue, 05 Aug 2014 10:16 am

PNGMK wrote:Whizzard - it's your lack PAP affiliation (or apparent lack of allegiance).... GE 2016 needs 100% certain PAP new SC - you are far from that.


I agree with this .... Folk who are not financially dependent upon a Govt tend to be rather free thinking and often do not go with what the Govt is expecting.

If you are financially and socially dependent upon the Govt of the time then you are for more likely to vote for the Govt of the day.

This is why i am amazed by folk on here who use Salary as a criteria for PR and Citizenship.

If they hand our PR and then citizenship to folks who are not financially and socially dependent on the Govt , why the hell would they vote for Govt?

If I was Singapore Govt I would only be doling out Citizenships especially to folks who would be dependent on the state and would have everything to lose by voting for opposition.
Life is short, paddle harder!!

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Postby nakatago » Tue, 05 Aug 2014 10:22 am

Barnsley wrote:
PNGMK wrote:Whizzard - it's your lack PAP affiliation (or apparent lack of allegiance).... GE 2016 needs 100% certain PAP new SC - you are far from that.


I agree with this .... Folk who are not financially dependent upon a Govt tend to be rather free thinking and often do not go with what the Govt is expecting.

If you are financially and socially dependent upon the Govt of the time then you are for more likely to vote for the Govt of the day.

This is why i am amazed by folk on here who use Salary as a criteria for PR and Citizenship.

If they hand our PR and then citizenship to folks who are not financially and socially dependent on the Govt , why the hell would they vote for Govt?

If I was Singapore Govt I would only be doling out Citizenships especially to folks who would be dependent on the state and would have everything to lose by voting for opposition.


Very opportunistic and self-serving.

Yup; that's Singapore. There's no illegal graft and corruption in Singapore.

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Postby Bakulii » Tue, 05 Aug 2014 11:37 pm

Barnsley wrote:
PNGMK wrote:If I was Singapore Govt I would only be doling out Citizenships especially to folks who would be dependent on the state and would have everything to lose by voting for opposition.


I do not fully support this line of thinking; surely the Spore Govt needs to also ensure sufficient collection of income taxes, surely the more taxes you are paying, the more chances to be approved for your SC application?

Secondly, what are the chances that the opposition will not be more citizen-friendly if they come to power? I don't think new citizens will vote just on the basis of which political party was in power at the time their SC application was approved.......there are much more things to be considered.


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