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New motorcycles - taxes

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Strong Eagle
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Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 24 Jun 2014 10:08 pm

PNGMK wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:
x9200 wrote:I just called Hong Leong, and if I got it right, it is 33k COE inclusive. I forgot to ask about GST but even if not included it is still damn good value for money for a bike like this.


It's a hurtful amount of money but it's life in Singapore. This bike in the USA ranges from $13,500 to $16,900 which is S$16,860 to S$21,105.

http://www.cycletrader.com/Yamaha-Fjr13 ... rsn=hybrid

If I recall, curiousgeorge imported a bike and said he saved quite a bit of money... maybe he will chime in or you could PM him.


Ok - lets assume base price is US10,000. Duty is 100% approx to that's US20,000 = SGD25,000. Add COE of $4,000 and we have SGD29,000. Shipping and delivery prep is probably $1000. I guess $32,000 is a bit high.


Using Sing $$

Bike price - $16,860
Freight and insurance - $2,000
Subtotal - $18,860 (OMV)
Excise tax @ 12% - $2,263
Subtotal - $21,123
GST @ 7% - $1,479
Subtotal - $22,602

COE - $3,900
Registration and Fees - $200
ARF @ 15% OMV - $2,829
Road tax - 1 year - $460

Total cost - $29,991

Note that OMV is the sum total of actual price of the motorcycle, plus freight, insurance, handling charges, and "incidental charges" such as inspection fees, paperwork fees, etc.

So, you could potentially come out ahead by S$3,000 or so if you find a good deal internationally but there is plenty of hassle in doing so.

curiousgeorge made this blog post: http://f800gsrider.blogspot.com/2009/04 ... uk-to.html

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Postby zzm9980 » Wed, 25 Jun 2014 12:07 am

Strong Eagle wrote:\
curiousgeorge made this blog post: http://f800gsrider.blogspot.com/2009/04 ... uk-to.html


I like his travel blog posts. I need to take a motorcycle trip through Malaysia.

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Postby PNGMK » Wed, 25 Jun 2014 1:31 am

Strong Eagle wrote:
PNGMK wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:
x9200 wrote:I just called Hong Leong, and if I got it right, it is 33k COE inclusive. I forgot to ask about GST but even if not included it is still damn good value for money for a bike like this.


It's a hurtful amount of money but it's life in Singapore. This bike in the USA ranges from $13,500 to $16,900 which is S$16,860 to S$21,105.

http://www.cycletrader.com/Yamaha-Fjr13 ... rsn=hybrid

If I recall, curiousgeorge imported a bike and said he saved quite a bit of money... maybe he will chime in or you could PM him.


Ok - lets assume base price is US10,000. Duty is 100% approx to that's US20,000 = SGD25,000. Add COE of $4,000 and we have SGD29,000. Shipping and delivery prep is probably $1000. I guess $32,000 is a bit high.


Using Sing $$

Bike price - $16,860
Freight and insurance - $2,000
Subtotal - $18,860 (OMV)
Excise tax @ 12% - $2,263
Subtotal - $21,123
GST @ 7% - $1,479
Subtotal - $22,602

COE - $3,900
Registration and Fees - $200
ARF @ 15% OMV - $2,829
Road tax - 1 year - $460

Total cost - $29,991

Note that OMV is the sum total of actual price of the motorcycle, plus freight, insurance, handling charges, and "incidental charges" such as inspection fees, paperwork fees, etc.

So, you could potentially come out ahead by S$3,000 or so if you find a good deal internationally but there is plenty of hassle in doing so.

curiousgeorge made this blog post: http://f800gsrider.blogspot.com/2009/04 ... uk-to.html


I wasn't thinking of the savings as much as working out how much the stealers were gouging him.

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Postby curiousgeorge » Wed, 25 Jun 2014 8:59 am

Thanks for the plug, Strong Eagle :)

In general terms, importing a new bike is not worth it. My import made sense because it was a year old and my dealer in the UK assigned a used-value price that was ridiculously low and provided a letter to confirm it.

As there were no F800GS in Singapore at the time, ICE accepted that valuation which made everything else (duty, GST, ARF etc) cheaper. If I ran the same figures with a new-bike price it would be comparable.

More to the point: I discussed the import with the local BMW dealer before doing it, and they were happy to take over the servicing of the bike. However, a year later (maybe due to the success of my import post!) they introduced a fee to "register" your bike with them ($400) and added 25% to cost of all parts for imported bikes.

So the total cost of ownership suddenly goes up.

So unless your have a particularly sentimental attachment to an existing bike back home, my advice would be don't bother.

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Postby x9200 » Wed, 25 Jun 2014 1:26 pm

SE, how is practical maneuverability of such big bike like your Valkyrie in Singapore traffic? What is more troublesome part, handling the heavy weight or squeezing in with the width?
I am trying to assess how much of the advantage of a smaller bike I will lose going for a bigger one.

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Postby PNGMK » Wed, 25 Jun 2014 10:18 pm

x9200 wrote:SE, how is practical maneuverability of such big bike like your Valkyrie in Singapore traffic? What is more troublesome part, handling the heavy weight or squeezing in with the width?
I am trying to assess how much of the advantage of a smaller bike I will lose going for a bigger one.


IME - (having owned a H-D and smaller bikes) is that the smaller bikes are much, much easier in traffic. Your ankles will scream blue murder every time you jump on a large (say >150KG) bike for a 30 min ride through hard traffic. Own two - a large one and a small one.

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Postby x9200 » Wed, 25 Jun 2014 10:44 pm

I am riding now a 180kg scooter. Not sure if the low centre of gravity helps but in heavy traffic I am mostly tired of being extra concentrated. Not really any physical tiredness. My butt aches if the ride is longer then 45min regardless the traffic condition.

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Postby Strong Eagle » Thu, 26 Jun 2014 12:02 pm

x9200 wrote:SE, how is practical maneuverability of such big bike like your Valkyrie in Singapore traffic? What is more troublesome part, handling the heavy weight or squeezing in with the width?
I am trying to assess how much of the advantage of a smaller bike I will lose going for a bigger one.


My Valkyrie has a very low center of gravity bike and I rode one for a very long time... I could maneuver this bike at very low speeds without issue.

The key problem in filtering is width... the Valkyrie handlebars are 33 inches wide... and if they fit, it guarantees that the rest of the bike, even with side bags and top box, will fit.

IF you are an experienced cyclist and are adept at low speed maneuvers, then I'd see no issue with a liter bike or more... being wider mostly means that there are places where you can't lane split where others can... but it's not that bad. But you must be adept at acceleration, braking, and counter steering or you will get yourself in trouble.

Most of the time, you'll lane split at stop lights... the traffic is stopped... you just move up as far as you can to beat all the traffic... it is quite safe and saves tons of time. Lane splitting on the expressways is generally OK if the speeds are slow like rush hour... the lanes are wide and people don't actually change lanes that often.

You do have to be an idiot to lane split most other streets unless traffic is dead slow... lanes are narrower, taxis unpredictable, and there are always the assholes in Mercedes and BMW that will move over to make sure you can't get by.

Bottom line: A small bike is easier to "flick" than a big one, but if you need to do this while lane splitting, you're not doing it right. When you do it properly, you see the flow of cars and the opening and closing of spaces for you to move. You really are going with the flow.

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Postby stuckmojo » Thu, 26 Jun 2014 1:23 pm

For what it's worth, before getting my current bike I looked into importing a used one from the UK vs buying new or used here.

In the end heart ruled head and I went for a used HD Street Glide here, with 8 years COE left.

To substantiate what SE said about riding the Honda in traffic, big bikes with low COG are not a problem. Easier than the BMW adventure things for sure.

With regards to the total cost of ownership, consider depreciation. Big Harleys for some strange reason depreciate much less than anything else.

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Postby x9200 » Thu, 26 Jun 2014 1:29 pm

Thanks SE. My X9 is over 35in wide mirror to mirror, and the mirrors are exactly at the height where majority of the vans have their mirrors what makes some extra fun. I am riding like this in Singapore for almost 10 years so I guess I should be fine.

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Postby PNGMK » Thu, 26 Jun 2014 6:45 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
x9200 wrote:SE, how is practical maneuverability of such big bike like your Valkyrie in Singapore traffic? What is more troublesome part, handling the heavy weight or squeezing in with the width?
I am trying to assess how much of the advantage of a smaller bike I will lose going for a bigger one.


My Valkyrie has a very low center of gravity bike and I rode one for a very long time... I could maneuver this bike at very low speeds without issue.

The key problem in filtering is width... the Valkyrie handlebars are 33 inches wide... and if they fit, it guarantees that the rest of the bike, even with side bags and top box, will fit.

IF you are an experienced cyclist and are adept at low speed maneuvers, then I'd see no issue with a liter bike or more... being wider mostly means that there are places where you can't lane split where others can... but it's not that bad. But you must be adept at acceleration, braking, and counter steering or you will get yourself in trouble.

Most of the time, you'll lane split at stop lights... the traffic is stopped... you just move up as far as you can to beat all the traffic... it is quite safe and saves tons of time. Lane splitting on the expressways is generally OK if the speeds are slow like rush hour... the lanes are wide and people don't actually change lanes that often.

You do have to be an idiot to lane split most other streets unless traffic is dead slow... lanes are narrower, taxis unpredictable, and there are always the assholes in Mercedes and BMW that will move over to make sure you can't get by.

Bottom line: A small bike is easier to "flick" than a big one, but if you need to do this while lane splitting, you're not doing it right. When you do it properly, you see the flow of cars and the opening and closing of spaces for you to move. You really are going with the flow.


+1 to the MB and BMWs. I actually hit them (with my palm), knock their mirror or kick them now. I figure eventually they'll work it out.

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Postby Strong Eagle » Thu, 26 Jun 2014 9:21 pm

x9200 wrote:Thanks SE. My X9 is over 35in wide mirror to mirror, and the mirrors are exactly at the height where majority of the vans have their mirrors what makes some extra fun. I am riding like this in Singapore for almost 10 years so I guess I should be fine.


I was able to reverse my mirrors 180 degrees to get them inside the handle bars.

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Postby x9200 » Thu, 26 Jun 2014 9:33 pm

not doable in X9. Thick, plastic, modular mirrors also housing the indicators.

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Postby zzm9980 » Fri, 27 Jun 2014 12:41 am

x9200 wrote:Thanks SE. My X9 is over 35in wide mirror to mirror, and the mirrors are exactly at the height where majority of the vans have their mirrors what makes some extra fun.


I've noticed this exact problem on my bike and the large trucks in the US (Ford F150s, etc). Plenty of clearance, except from those mirrors. And these trucks like to stay exactly parallel to each other stopping me...

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Postby zzm9980 » Fri, 27 Jun 2014 12:43 am

PNGMK wrote:+1 to the MB and BMWs. I actually hit them (with my palm), knock their mirror or kick them now. I figure eventually they'll work it out.


Get yourself a pair of these (or at least a cheaper equivalent) and wrap your knuckles on the car a few times:

http://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/dain ... pro-gloves


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