SG Transfer Offer

[Kathireast]

Hi,

I am working in Norway now. My company (a French MNC) has informed that there is one vacancy in SG with 10K SGD monthly salary. It seems I need to relocate permanently if I accept the offer.

I am from India and I consider it is good if I come close to my home country. I finished my doctorate in Engineering from a well known Norwegian university and working in my current job for the last 3 and half years.

I am bit confused and seek your opinion regarding the following points in my offer;

1) My office at SG informed that new offer is based on 1 month notice period. In Norway, it is 3 month notice period from either side.
If something happens unexpectedly (we never know) and if I come out, will it be possible to get another job within 1 month?

I know it is a tricky question. Considering the back-up social security in Norway, I am afraid to accept this 1 month notice period.

I also came to know that my EP can not be transferred to another Company. Can we search another job without EP?

It is tough for me to accept something in SG leaving all the social and job related benifits in Norway. Atleast I can remain in Norway with my PR if I leave my current job. I don't think I have this option in SG. Any comment?

2) I have been assured that they will arrange for my EP as well DP for my wife. Will it take more time to secure LOC for her if she prefers to work in SG. She doesn't have previous work experience. Will it be difficult to find job?. She has master in mathematics.

3) I didn't get a complete contract yet. It is strange that they told me to accept the job without sending the contract. In my term, it is not acceptable. I can not risk my current job without seeing the contract. Any opinion?

4) Will it be possible to manage with 10k for 2 people?

5) Finally, will you recommend SG in place of Norway?

Thanks in advance. I seek your opinion as soon as possible. They informed me that I should repond before Monday, the 23rd June.

[Strong Eagle]

You have a very tough call. I'm not sure I would do it. Here are the factors I would consider.

a) S$10,000 is not a lot of money for Singapore You can live well but not extravagantly. If you have children, International Schools will cost S$25K to S$30K per year per child. Cost for a new car will be well over $150K for a small car, more yet for a larger, more luxurious brand. Housing can be had for "reasonable" (for Singapore) but it is not uncommon to find people paying S$6,000 and up for accommodation. You should compare what you have now and what you are making now using at least these chart as part of your decision making process: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/co ... =Singapore

b) Whether or not you can get another job in one month depends a lot on what you are doing. If it's any kind of IT related thing, I would not hold my breath. EP's are getting harder to get for many companies, even with a decent salary. The focus is on hiring locals, and while the economy is still robust there is lots of anecdotal evidence of multinationals reducing their footprint in Singapore. You should be aware that once you are released by your company, your EP will be revoked and you will only have a 30 day social visit pass in which to find work or move back. You should also concern yourself with your rental lease, as most demand full payment or significant penalties if you break the lease early.

c) Will you get to keep your Norway PR, even if it means visits back to Norway once in a while? You cannot contribute to Singapore's social security scheme and will have to either get your company to contribute to a retirement account or you will have to do it with your own savings. You also need proper expat medical insurance that covers you both in Singapore and when you travel abroad. If your social, job related benefits are large, you need to factor them into the total package being offered. Keeping your PR in Norway is important... if you lose it and are terminated, where will you go?

d) Your wife will have a lot of tough sledding getting a job anywhere near her educational level. Without experience, she can't compete for EP's very easily, and a LOC would be the only way to go. Many trailing spouses have great difficulty with the transition, either being unable to find a job at their skill level, and instead, taking a lesser job, or doing volunteer activities. BTW - your company cannot secure an EP for your wife unless she works for them... they can only get a DP, dependents pass, and she can then work under a Letter of Consent (LOC).

e) If it were I, I'd want a rock solid contract before I would consider the move. Not only do you have to have compensation firmly spelled out, you need to cover:

1) Medical and dental coverage and repatriation for severe illness.
2) Costs of moving to Singapore and subsequent repatriation should you be terminated.
3) Guarantee that leases and other costs will be picked up by the company.
4) A guarantee of tenure for at least some duration... two years minimum, three or more if possible. This gives you breathing space to understand the world you are in and the opportunities that are available.
5) Other expat perks include annual allowances for trips home, schooling for children, transportation subsidies, and payment of taxes where dual taxation might be involved.

Norway's tax rates are higher than Singapore, and you get more services. As to which to recommend? I've never been to Norway but have seen much of the scenery via videos. It's cold in the winter. How do you feel about living in a very humid climate where the temperature is 23 at night and 33 in the day, with little variation?

I'd be very wary of this move myself. I'd want to analyze what will happen to me in the company if I refuse to take the position. Will I be able to find other work in Norway if they want to dump me? I'd want an ironclad contract that protects me from being marooned in Singapore. I'd probably want more money. And I'd certainly evaluate the benefits I'd have to give up to take the position. My $0.02.

[JR8]

Hey ho to you and Norway, and what a perfect time of the year it is there right now!
10k a month for you + wife is a nice offer. (You don’t say your age, experience, position etc., but that’s a nice salary by general measures.
1) Norway is a ‘passive socialist’ country. Curiously enough Singapore is too. But they manifest in different ways. Norway is one of the wealthiest countries on earth, but perversely it also one of the most expensive. What you have in NO is a lot of leftie protectionism, that includes bull* like 3 months notice to quit a job. As always this apparent advantage accidentally (blame the politicians) translates into no-one wanting to hire people, and a stagnant jobs market. Same as in other socialist countries, like France (Sweden etc).
1 months notice here is normal, and you are veeery unlikely to change that standard contract term. If you go on about it, they’ll conclude you’re a bit weird and expecting to get fired. Most people here don’t get fired. You can hop from one employer to another, but naturally it takes time, and there’s no guarantee. Particularly as foreigners get hired here for specialist skills, so doing 6 months as a waiter (or what ever) while finding your next niche position, is not going to be an option.
- yeah NO has all this back-up and ‘security’ but that’s also why a take-out sandwich costs S$20, and a pint of beer S$30+, and income tax goes up to... what? 70/80/90%?
- An EP can’t be transfered. But, you can search for a job prior to having an EP, and search for an alt job also whilst employed on an EP.
Norway = cushy, well paid, expensive. Singapore = dog-eat-dog, can be well paid, can be good value. You also need to consider what a move to SG would look like on your resume, i.e. as a career move.
2) No expert on this one. But I don’t think she, as a DP, can apply for an LOC until she has a job offer. However I understand, that under such circumstances getting an LOC is not that troublesome.
Getting a job with no previous experience is another matter however. In some ways here, foreigners get hired for the previous/international experience that they bring, i.e. beyond paper qualifications.
3) Likely nothing ominous, probably just the hiring/line manager well ahead of HR here/back at HQ. That said I wouldn’t accept a job before seeing a contract however, I’d want to know about relocation/removals/health insurance/any housing allowance/annual leave. etc*20. And no I definitely wouldn’t prejudice any current job there, on the un-contracted promise of one here... no way, and no way they should expect to make this huge leap of faith into the unknown.
4) Hell yes! That said, as above, it’s unclear if your current ride is a bicycle or an Aston Martin, whether you’re a clerk, or an MD/SVP.
5) [inhaling through teeth!]. Even a move from say London, New York, Frankfurt, to Singapore involves massive culture shock. Oslo is like a provincial town in comparison. The move would be a really major social/cultural change. I’ve been to Norway many times (family), but I suspect it’s great to visit but, harder 24/7. Like dealing with Norwegian winters (light for just 5-6hrs a day for 4 months, and that’s down south), and Singaporean summers 32+c every day + 80-90+% humidity, for months on end... like right now!
I think you need to consider the value of the a) career move b) lifestyle change (savings, friends and family visiting etc)
Skol!

[zzm9980]

and income tax goes up to... what? 70/80/90%?

Not sure what OP makes in Norway, but we should remind him that Singapore is the opposite of Norway here. Income tax on 120k/year will only be S$7950/year. That's before deductions/exemptions.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Hi,

I am working in Norway now. My company (a French MNC) has informed that there is one vacancy in SG with 10K SGD monthly salary. It seems I need to relocate permanently if I accept the offer.

I am from India and I consider it is good if I come close to my home country. I finished my doctorate in Engineering from a well known Norwegian university and working in my current job for the last 3 and half years.

I am bit confused and seek your opinion regarding the following points in my offer;

1) My office at SG informed that new offer is based on 1 month notice period. In Norway, it is 3 month notice period from either side.
If something happens unexpectedly (we never know) and if I come out, will it be possible to get another job within 1 month?

One month notice is the norm here. Getting another job within one month, doubtful, if at all.

I know it is a tricky question. Considering the back-up social security in Norway, I am afraid to accept this 1 month notice period.

I also came to know that my EP can not be transferred to another Company. Can we search another job without EP?

See above

Yes you can search for another job while on a social visit pass (which is 30~90 days depending on your country of origin (if you are an Indian National it will be 30 days only). The EP is tied to the employer and they must have the IPA (In Principle Approval) in hand before sending you over (good chance of it not being approved in today's climate here).

It is tough for me to accept something in SG leaving all the social and job related benifits in Norway. Atleast I can remain in Norway with my PR if I leave my current job. I don't think I have this option in SG. Any comment?

Correct. however you will get a 30 day SVP (Social Visit Pass) upon cancellation of your EP. Outside of that, no. You cannot extend that particular SVP as it is tied to the cancellation of the EP.

2) I have been assured that they will arrange for my EP as well DP for my wife. Will it take more time to secure LOC for her if she prefers to work in SG. She doesn't have previous work experience. Will it be difficult to find job?. She has master in mathematics.

Yes, it can possibly be difficult for her to even obtain an LoC. This was not an issue a couple of years ago, but because some were working in positions of much lower or non-related to their degree, positions, it has been tightened up, so there is no guarantee that a LoC will be issued to the company sponsoring your EP for the position being applied for by the dependent. So, unless you are sure you can survive on a single income for you might want to think twice.

3) I didn't get a complete contract yet. It is strange that they told me to accept the job without sending the contract. In my term, it is not acceptable. I can not risk my current job without seeing the contract. Any opinion?

Don't. Wait for the IPA. Otherwise you may find yourself between a rock and a hard place.

4) Will it be possible to manage with 10k for 2 people?

Yes, but of course that is wholly dependent on one's lifestyle.

5) Finally, will you recommend SG in place of Norway?

No. Unless you are fond of overt racism. Not violent but in your face. (I've not been to Norway so don't know how that is there.)

Thanks in advance. I seek your opinion as soon as possible. They informed me that I should repond before Monday, the 23rd June.

That's the blunt reply. Somebody else will give other opinions later in all probability (it's Sunday morning here at the moment).

sms

[AngMoG]

Just to make a short comment to this, most everything I guess has been said already:

Do NOT accept the job without having the full contract in hand and read it through thoroughly. In Singapore, an employee has (almost) no rights other than what is spelled out in the contract (and possibly employee handbook or similar mentioned in the contract). This is pretty much the opposite of the employee-friendly jurisdictions in Western Europe.

[Kathireast]

Hello guys,

Thanks or your prompt responses. I got some idea about the situation in SG. I will summarise your inputs as well few additional queries from me and put forward to my HR. If everything is OK, I will consider this offer. Otherwise, I will continue in Norway.

Please continue this excellent task.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Thanks. We catch hell (well I do anyway) but we always try to tell it like it is. We are all volunteers (moderators included) and we don't try to blow smoke. It's better you know the worse case scenario and then if it turns out better, you that much happier! Good Luck with HR.

[rajagainstthemachine]

with regards to

point no 5. : Answer is NO! I wouldn't, Norway at least for me is miles better than Singapore.

point no 4. 10K can be sufficient or may not be as well, it all depends on what standard of housing/lifestyle you wish to live in Singapore.

these are my inputs, as for the other points I tend to concur with earlier posters.

[bro75]

Make sure that the contract states that your move is confirmed only upon receipt of the IPA (in principle approval of your employment pass).

[PNGMK]

IF you're company HQ is in Norway (Roxar? FMC?) then I'd stay there if you're a capable engineer or whatever. Your career will stagnate once you're away from HQ.