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nakatago
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Postby nakatago » Sat, 21 Jun 2014 9:12 am

x9200 wrote:
nakatago wrote:...

This has to be premeditated.


Well, I've noticed that for a certain group of people, it's their default way of presenting a point. Must've been culturally programmed into them; very much like an inability to discern nuance, only able to speak in broad, sweeping generalizations or cherry-picking points.

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Postby x9200 » Sat, 21 Jun 2014 9:32 am

nakatago wrote:
x9200 wrote:
nakatago wrote:...

This has to be premeditated.


Well, I've noticed that for a certain group of people, it's their default way of presenting a point. Must've been culturally programmed into them; very much like an inability to discern nuance, only able to speak in broad, sweeping generalizations or cherry-picking points.

Me thinks it is a less sophisticated version. I would call it "oh, shit, what now? Ugh, I know, I will deflect it bitching about this irrelevant detail" syndrome.

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Postby nakatago » Sat, 21 Jun 2014 10:08 am

x9200 wrote:Me thinks it is a less sophisticated version. I would call it "oh, shit, what now? Ugh, I know, I will deflect it bitching about this irrelevant detail" syndrome.


That too.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 21 Jun 2014 11:29 am

Sing Along wrote:
Brah wrote:
Fortan wrote:What national identity is that? Can you explain to me what national identity a Singaporean has - except being born in Singapore? What makes a Singaporean unique? I am just curious as I can't see the identity here. What I see is the opposite - a lack of identity.

You don't have your own language, Singlish is taken from the neighboring countries mother tongue. A Singaporean is not Malay, you are not Chinese, you are not Indian but you are a Singaporean.

With a 49 year old 'culture' that I can't see…. This is not a post to piss on Singaporeans or anything along those lines, I just don't see any culture here except for eating and talking about food - and of course shopping.

However, I might be completely missing the Singaporean identity, even in my Singaporean friends… I just can't find it.


I have to agree with everything you wrote. I've been here longer than you and I have yet to find it either, and I have looked and integrated and ended up pulling out every time.

The culture is not much more that a lot of talking about food that is mediocre at best and pales in comparison with almost any other Asian nation, and shopping malls for things that are more expensive here than anywhere (?) else. It's just all so empty - safe, pleasant, but empty.

And before the Troll With Multiple Accounts reacts by telling people about leaving, well you have to realize that not everyone here who is not from here wants to be here or even enjoys being here.


To both,

Being a young nation, Singapore has borrowed it's culture heavily . It's true that our people all originated from other places at one time or another but over time, we have meshed these cultures into one that is our own. It may not be the most colorful or the most desired but from what I can see, we are moving in the right direction. Every country has their unique food and culture and regardless of how old or young the nation is, culture is always evolving.

If someone does not like or conform to the culture of the place, I rather they leave. Taking myself as an example, I cannot stand the culture in China, therefore I make a conscious decision not to involve myself there.

What we do not need most now is a step back, because of the failure of certain groups of people to integrate.

What I believe in and I'm sure what most people believe in, when in Rome, do as the Romans do.


Sing Along, If you haven't done any in depth research on this board, and as I suspect, dropped in via the cesspit
of Facebook, for the record, I've been here longer than most and have been an adult here on the little Red Dot
considerably longer than most of the true blues who are trying to instigate trouble for the PAP AND for their
nation as a whole. You all are hellbent on the destruction of the country due mostly to your own intractability. I
would ask how long you have been an adult here in the working population, first of all.

Secondly, the two highlighted areas, when in Rome? So we should all be rude, inconsiderate, talk louder than
two Chinese Aunties on the phone? Only those from the subcontinent can even begin to match them, PRC
cannot. Should we all acquire the Singapore Buffet Syndrome? The kiasu mentality that pervades everyday life?
No, I don't think so either. However, in order for a foreigner to integrate here, they have to be welcomed (by
human beings, not government bureaucracy. If they are disparaged before they have done anything, ignored
when shopping, given sloppy service if given service at all, aren't spoken to casually, e.g., "Have you eaten?",
then yes, like all humans, who want to assimilate, they are eventually going to give up and become like birds
(tend to flock together). Granted, today it is not nearly as hard for a foreigner to make inroads, but it is still NOT
EASY when ignored. I'm an introvert by nature from a social perspective so have a hard time "pushing myself on
a people who aren't welcoming". When I first came to Singapore it was still a number of years before the term
"Little Red Dot" had been coined by B.J.Habibie of Indonesia. I didn't live in an expat enclave but in a local setting
and it was depressing as hell to say the least. Add to that, most heartlanders back in those days DID lack
English and even Singlish and were still speaking dialect. So, I found a way to bridge the gap without bridging it.
For me it was SBC/TCS/MediaCorp & MediaWorks. I've appeared in over 100 different locally produce Mandarin
Drama Series over a period of 18 years. As a token Ang Mo in Chinese Drama (one of very few part time actors,
not extras, in those days). What this did for an introvert was pique the curiosity of those who watched those
shows and after a while it worked famously, as then they would bridge the gap if for nothing but to inquire if I
was that Ang Mo, Mr. Whoever, in a particular series. I acted with Zoe Tay in the Series when she had her 1st
leading role (we started with SBC the same year). And I've acted with most of the well know ones over the
years. But, I was lucky. I just happened to be available and was recommended by another expat to the Facility
Officer at SBC and off we went. The pittance they paid was worth far more that what they thought. Even the old
man who interviewed me for PR those 20 over years ago recognized me at the interview. I could go into any
Kopitiam in Singapore and the aunties would recognize me and so on. But not everybody can do that or is even
capable to do it.

In my country, when a new neighbour arrives, we usually show up on moving day with dishes of
food/drinks/deserts for the new families as we know the first couple of days of trying to unpack and get set up
and provisioned is a headache, so it's our way of helping them settle in. Here? When you move in and you walk
down a corridor what happens? You hear doors slam shut and windows slam shut. How to integrate when those
kinds of signals are being sent. Integration is a two way street. As the "Host" country (look up the meaning of
host). You have to start the process. When that happens you have know idea how much it means to newcomers.

I've already said my piece on the HDB policy so I wont go there, suffice it to say Singaporeans who hold out for
the highest possible prices, prevent other Singaporeans from buying. Foreign PR's have no choice if they want a
place to live and they cannot stay with their parents.

Sorry for the ramble but it needed to be said. Look inwardly first to see if the problem is there. My two children,
boy and girl, when through the local system (were both born in the old KK hospital) and are 25 & 30 now. I AM
very familiar with Singapore.

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Postby yogaloungeforever » Sat, 21 Jun 2014 12:35 pm

Honestly speaking the locals (majority) are already going out of their way to welcome foreigners. I remembered when I started out at this small Chinese dominated company and there were 3 sub-cons who each had started in a space of less than 3 months before me, at lunch one day I invited them out for a meal along with some of my other team members. Their response was that they could not eat anything that was not Indian food. Ok so I asked them what about if they could select the place to eat and we all join them I was the least to say annoyed at their next reply, 'we have made appointment with other friends for lunch!'. Out of curiosity, I checked on them and found them eating lunch with other sub-cons from other companies. Well birds of a feather will always flock together whether effort is made to integrate them.

Talk about integrating foreigners here in Singapore, it's even harder to integrate in western society as a foreigner.

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Secondly, the two highlighted areas, when in Rome? So we should all be rude, inconsiderate, talk louder than
two Chinese Aunties on the phone? Only those from the subcontinent can even begin to match them, PRC
cannot. Should we all acquire the Singapore Buffet Syndrome? The kiasu mentality that pervades everyday life?
No, I don't think so either. However, in order for a foreigner to integrate here, they have to be welcomed (by
human beings, not government bureaucracy
. If they are disparaged before they have done anything, ignored
when shopping, given sloppy service if given service at all, aren't spoken to casually, e.g., "Have you eaten?",
then yes, like all humans, who want to assimilate, they are eventually going to give up and become like birds
(tend to flock together). Granted, today it is not nearly as hard for a foreigner to make inroads, but it is still NOT
EASY when ignored. I'm an introvert by nature from a social perspective so have a hard time "pushing myself on
a people who aren't welcoming". When I first came to Singapore it was still a number of years before the term
"Little Red Dot" had been coined by B.J.Habibie of Indonesia. I didn't live in an expat enclave but in a local setting
and it was depressing as hell to say the least. Add to that, most heartlanders back in those days DID lack
English and even Singlish and were still speaking dialect. So, I found a way to bridge the gap without bridging it.
For me it was SBC/TCS/MediaCorp & MediaWorks. I've appeared in over 100 different locally produce Mandarin
Drama Series over a period of 18 years. As a token Ang Mo in Chinese Drama (one of very few part time actors,
not extras, in those days). What this did for an introvert was pique the curiosity of those who watched those
shows and after a while it worked famously, as then they would bridge the gap if for nothing but to inquire if I
was that Ang Mo, Mr. Whoever, in a particular series. I acted with Zoe Tay in the Series when she had her 1st
leading role (we started with SBC the same year). And I've acted with most of the well know ones over the
years. But, I was lucky. I just happened to be available and was recommended by another expat to the Facility
Officer at SBC and off we went. The pittance they paid was worth far more that what they thought. Even the old
man who interviewed me for PR those 20 over years ago recognized me at the interview. I could go into any
Kopitiam in Singapore and the aunties would recognize me and so on. But not everybody can do that or is even
capable to do it.

In my country, when a new neighbour arrives, we usually show up on moving day with dishes of
food/drinks/deserts for the new families as we know the first couple of days of trying to unpack and get set up
and provisioned is a headache, so it's our way of helping them settle in. Here? When you move in and you walk
down a corridor what happens? You hear doors slam shut and windows slam shut. How to integrate when those
kinds of signals are being sent. Integration is a two way street. As the "Host" country (look up the meaning of
host). You have to start the process. When that happens you have know idea how much it means to newcomers.

I've already said my piece on the HDB policy so I wont go there, suffice it to say Singaporeans who hold out for
the highest possible prices, prevent other Singaporeans from buying. Foreign PR's have no choice if they want a
place to live and they cannot stay with their parents.

Sorry for the ramble but it needed to be said. Look inwardly first to see if the problem is there. My two children,
boy and girl, when through the local system (were both born in the old KK hospital) and are 25 & 30 now. I AM
very familiar with Singapore.
Life is short hence I live it to its fullest, that is .... I eat and sleep

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Postby Blade » Sat, 21 Jun 2014 12:52 pm

Quote:"In my country, when a new neighbour arrives, we usually show up on moving day with dishes of food/drinks/deserts..."

Well this is MY COUNTRY.Guess what,this is Singapore not Wisteria Lane.Even when another new Singaporean moves onto the neighborhood, doors and slammed.

Good thing you didn't move into an Elite neighbourhood e.g Nassim rd.where children are hidden away and the Police [actually the Gurkhas]is called.

Welcome to Singapore.

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Postby singaporebornand bred » Sat, 21 Jun 2014 1:17 pm

[quote="Brah"][quote="singaporebornand bred"]On the inflow of foreigners, more Singaporeans preferred reducing it even if this translated to slower growth and jobs. Lower income groups were more inclined towards reducing the inflow of foreigners, which may be “a reflection of the competition for jobs at that level”

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Postby JR8 » Sat, 21 Jun 2014 1:26 pm

Blade wrote:Well this is MY COUNTRY.Guess what,this is Singapore not Wisteria Lane.Even when another new Singaporean moves onto the neighborhood, doors and slammed. ... Welcome to Singapore.



But with an attitude like this...
---
'Don't bother giving advice to Singaporeans.They are the most bigoted narrow-minded people you can hope to meet.And they can't see beyond their front noses.Or beyond the latest LV,Prada bag whatever. All this is a result of their conditioning.They charge out of their 3 room HDB flats thinking they are the centre of the world. '
sutra335019.html&highlight=#335019
---

... is it surprising the locals don't want to know you?

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Blade
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Postby Blade » Sat, 21 Jun 2014 1:38 pm

Exactly.We are not No.1 for nothing.

Btw you actually like it here? or you have no choice?

For me I live in 3 cities HK [crazy city but world-class],Bali [feeds the soul] and Singapore [no soul but my hometown], that's how I keep sane..

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x9200
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Postby x9200 » Sat, 21 Jun 2014 1:51 pm

Love and hate relation.

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Postby JR8 » Sat, 21 Jun 2014 1:52 pm

Blade wrote:Exactly.We are not No.1 for nothing.
Btw you actually like it here? or you have no choice?
For me I live in 3 cities HK [crazy city but world-class],Bali [feeds the soul] and Singapore [no soul but my hometown], that's how I keep sane..


#1 at what, being self-regarding?

I am not here through choice (this time), but I am not here forever either, so I try and be pragmatic, and dwell on the positive things that the place has to offer. Like a good airport, and hence the possibility without huge difficulty or expense of spending a lot of time outside of SG, within the region, in places that are just chalk + cheese, so chilled out in comparison.

Why do you think so many SGns seem so angry and hate-filled? Do you think it is the curse of riches?

You live in 3 countries, and yet resent others from abroad who come and live here for a while. How do you reconcile that contradiction?

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Postby Blade » Sat, 21 Jun 2014 2:21 pm

Alamak, concentrate lah,stop attributing words to me.

When did I say i resent Aliens? As before we luv the Ukrainian and the Mongolian babes that are starting to appear on our shores. Yummy!.

Singapore has been welcoming visitors for over '49' years.

I resent my fellow Sinkie more! but that's so Singaporean eh?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 21 Jun 2014 7:20 pm

So, the CX troll has finally reemerged after a hiatus of 5 years. You finally retire from CX or did they finally get tired of your sad BS? You were not real popular on the forum then either, except you kept it to the airline threads where most of the "Sinkies" (to use your seemingly favourite term) there didn't think to much of you either.

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Postby Brah » Sat, 21 Jun 2014 9:38 pm

Blade wrote:Exactly.We are not No.1 for nothing.

Btw you actually like it here? or you have no choice?.

You know if you keep telling yourself that you will actually start to believe it's true. You won't convince anyone here though, try as you may.

In my years here, I have seen no evidence of it. and a lot to the contrary.

Re the other point, not no choice, but less here due to choice than other reasons. Most I know are the same. There are worse places to be. There are many, many better places to be, and I would be in them if I could.

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Postby Wd40 » Sat, 21 Jun 2014 11:47 pm

Out of topic, in the new company I joined, yesterday was the last day of a Filipino girl in my team so we went to give her a farewell. There were 2 Europeans, 2 locals, the Filipino girl and myself Indian. It was decided that we go to a Filipino restaurant Gerry's grill on Cuppage road.

I being a strict vegetarian, I asked them to order only veg stuff, I was surprised that it was even possible. There was like one dish in which they removed the shrimps and just gave me the soup with vegetables and rice.

It was a good outing as it was really multicultural and the locals kept asking me funny questions like
1) Is Indian a race or a nationality :)
2) When I said there is Aryan and Dravidian race in India, historically, suddenly the local pointed to the European and said "Hey Aryan, isn't that related to Hitler" :)
3) Don't you feel hungry very soon being a vegetarian :)

The Europeans asked me less stranger questions, like they knew a few sentences in Hindi and they asked me what they meant and also asked where they could find a specific Indian dish that they found in Mauritius :?

It was a good outing overall, in my previous company it was completely Indians and I never had the opportunity to interact much with other cultures, but here, I am getting the opportunities and I am enjoying it.


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