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Discuss about life in Singapore. Ask about cost of living, housing, travel, etiquette & lifestyle. Share experience & advice with Singaporeans & expat staying in Singapore.

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JR8
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Postby JR8 » Fri, 20 Jun 2014 4:16 pm

Oh feck me, if it's not the patriotic dynamic duo.



.... cue red + white underpants, and the national anthem chime on the alarm clock.

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Sing Along
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Postby Sing Along » Fri, 20 Jun 2014 4:17 pm

JR8 wrote:I find it strange that this forum is an oasis of calm, experience, and considered help and support, and then....

2 or 3 trolls always turn up at the same time.

[or so it seems]



Lol. Well said. I stumble onto this thread from the all seeing google while searching for the original post.

Aside from the sidetracking into racism against Indians, there are some constructive arguments against the Singaporeans point of view.

Just to put things into perspective, majority of these PR are here from an environment that is worse of than Singapore. If they sincerely wish to contribute to Singapore, integrate into the society and take roots here, there is no issue with providing them what a citizen of Singapore should receive.

However, what most Singaporeans are perceiving is that
1. They stick to their own groups with their own language.

2. They try to game the HDB system by maximizing their gain before retiring in their countries without a permanent contribution to Singapore

3. They hire their own kinds. (This is a social issue even among locals but for a "Guest" to do it, it just aggravate the Singaporeans vs FT issue)

4. They do not have to do NS. Regardless of how the government whitewash it as NS men get benefits etc, the feeling on the ground is that we Singaporeans male get shortchanged. Nevermind the 2 years, but the yearly in camp training, required physical fitness training and maintenance is enough for us to turn an envious eye towards those that can drink the night away. And continue to backstab us in the office by saying "It's his job, not mine"

5. We have to provide for our family in Singapore, with Singapore cost of living. They send money back to their home country, with their cost of living. This allows them to demand lower wages than that of a local with family commitments. Add that to the cost of medical care in Singapore for the older folks and you got a ticking time bomb.

6. They just can't get the job done. Personal experience, not in the work place but being served. In SGH, the foreign talent at the pharmacy couldn't even understand my mom, having to bring a local in from another ward.

7. Not to discriminate against any race again, but on the train, how many of us gets irritated by the loud pitch and talking by certain foreign talents?

8. There are plenty of replete stories on how Singaporeans are replaced by foreigners that have no vested interest in Singapore. Regardless of the local's skill sets, this kind of news is bound to agitate the most passive people. People have gone onto street riots with less incendiary incidents.



All in all, we have no issues if they attempt to

1. Integrate into our society, not create a new society within our society.

2. Make Singapore their permanent home, regardless of daughters or sons to serve their NS.


This is just a humble Singaporean point of view.

You are a guest, behave like one.

If you want to be family, we welcome you. But do not become a outcast in the family and do not take advantage of our generosity.

If you are here as family, we are prepared to share our fruits, but you in turn have to share the burden of taking care of the family. There is no free lunch.
Last edited by Sing Along on Fri, 20 Jun 2014 4:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Fortan
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Postby Fortan » Fri, 20 Jun 2014 4:18 pm

singaporebornand bred wrote:
Blade wrote:Working on my Golf swing...later.

Keep up the GDP numbers now..thanks.


Blade , i'm here to help you.. SIngaporeans unite !!!


Just like Batman and Robin!

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Postby singaporebornand bred » Fri, 20 Jun 2014 4:23 pm

Sing Along wrote:
JR8 wrote:I find it strange that this forum is an oasis of calm, experience, and considered help and support, and then....

2 or 3 trolls always turn up at the same time.

[or so it seems]



Lol. Well said. I stumble onto this thread from the all seeing google while searching for the original post.

Aside from the sidetracking into racism against Indians, there are some constructive arguments against the Singaporeans point of view.

Just to put things into perspective, majority of these PR are here from an environment that is worst of than Singapore. If they sincerely wish to contribute to Singapore, integrate into the society and take roots here, there is no issue with providing them what a citizen of Singapore should receive.

However, what most Singaporeans are perceiving is that
1. They stick to their own groups with their own language.

2. They try to game the HDB system by maximizing their gain before retiring in their countries without a permanent contribution to Singapore

3. They hire their own kinds. (This is a social issue even among locals but for a "Guest" to do it, it just aggravate the Singaporeans vs FT issue)

4. They do not have to do NS. Regardless of how the government whitewash it as NS men get benefits etc, the feeling on the ground is that we Singaporeans male get shortchanged. Nevermind the 2 years, but the years in camp training and required physical fitness training and maintenance is enough for us to turn an envious eye towards those that can drink the night away. And continue to backstab us in the office by saying "It's his job, not mine"

5. We have to provide for our family in Singapore, with Singapore cost of living. They send money back to their home country, with their cost of living. This allows them to demand lower wages than that of a local with family commitments. Add that to the cost of medical care in Singapore for the older folks and you got a ticking time bomb.

6. They just can't get the job done. Personal experience, not in the work place but being served. In SGH, the foreign talent at the pharmacy couldn't even understand my mom, having to bring a local in from another ward.

7. Not to discriminate against any race again, but on the train, how many of us gets irritated by the loud pitch and talking by certain foreign talents?

8. There are plenty of replete stories on how Singaporeans are replaced by foreigners that have no vested interest in Singapore. Regardless of the skill sets, this kind of news is bound to agitate the most passive people.

People have gone onto street riots with less incendiary incidents.



All in all, we have no issues if they attempt to

1. Integrate into our society, not create a new society within our society.

2. Make Singapore their permanent home, regardless of daughters or sons to serve their NS.


This is a just humble Singaporean point of view.

You are a guest, behave like one.

If you want to be family, we welcome you. But do not become a outcast in the family and do not take advantage of our generosity.

If you are here as family, we are prepared to share our fruits, but you in turn have to share the burden of taking care of the family. There is no free lunch.












Well said

singaporebornand bred
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Postby singaporebornand bred » Fri, 20 Jun 2014 4:24 pm

My message to all..

Don't like it the doors are open for you to leave singapore

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nakatago
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Postby nakatago » Fri, 20 Jun 2014 4:29 pm

Oh boy.

Here we go.

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rajagainstthemachine
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Postby rajagainstthemachine » Fri, 20 Jun 2014 4:30 pm

omg the orcs are coming! hurry scurry run for cover

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Postby Sporkin » Fri, 20 Jun 2014 4:37 pm

Somewhat off topic,

Am I blaming PRs on all ills?

I chimed in specifically just on whether CGT will mitigate the problem of public housing inflation if PRs are the source of demand for the prices, and of course to get perspectives.


ecureilx wrote:
Sporkin wrote:Not all SC's get to buy first hand from public housing either, there's a income cap, but that's a separate issue.

Amount of profit really would depend on the time of market entry wouldn't it, but does the amount actually matter? If the purported interest of the govt to encourage PR->SC conversion, then this would be something to tilt in that favour.

I really do not have statistics on PR vs local demand of public housing, if someone could provide a link that would be fantastic. In any case if
a) there isn't much profiteering and,
b) PR demand isn't there
then it does not matter if there is a Capital Gains Tax imposed specifically for public housing wouldn't it?
]


not all SCs buy new because they want choice flats, so don't blame the PRs .. its not like they were forced to buy in resale

answers from PRs I know ... some who sols their flats to get new ones when they got SC.. and the only very few who moved to other countries (no, they didn't skim the profit an retire ... ) it was nothing almost, as they sold at lower prices ... and a few who got relocated to US by their employer sold at a loss when they cancelled their PR ...

for question b, do some research on what percentage of PRs own houses .. these are publicly available

you believe a lot of opposition propaganda I believe ... or blaming PRs for all misery ...

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x9200
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Postby x9200 » Fri, 20 Jun 2014 4:55 pm

Sing Along wrote:Just to put things into perspective, majority of these PR are here from an environment that is worse of than Singapore. If they sincerely wish to contribute to Singapore, integrate into the society and take roots here, there is no issue with providing them what a citizen of Singapore should receive.

However, what most Singaporeans are perceiving is that [..]

You would probably be surprised but as of your list majority of people frequenting this forum would agree with your points (most of them at least). What is opposed is the blind racial assignment and generalization. Can you see the difference?

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Mi Amigo
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Postby Mi Amigo » Fri, 20 Jun 2014 5:39 pm

singaporebornand inbred wrote:Please lah, do you employ hundreds or thousands of SIngaporeans ? Employing less than 0.001% of singapore's population and you are claiming the right to criticise SIngaporeans.. We dont care if you pull out and get the hell out of SIngapore it wont make a difference to us at all !!!

Well, seeing as how you were so gracious in your reply to my post, I'll give you my response to your most erudite contribution above.*

First of all, I'll criticise whoever I want, you included. The difference is that I do this based on what a person does and/or says, not which country they come from or whichever race they might be.

I'll leave you to guess how many jobs we created for Singaporeans since I opened the regional office, but I'll tell you this: Very few (if any) will be added going forward, as Singapore is now viewed as an undesirable location, due to its high cost and difficulty of hiring people. My role was relocated to another city which is now considered to be the APAC HQ, so Singapore has lost out on future job growth.

All the evidence shows that many other companies are either scaling down or moving out completely, so your wish for employers to get the hell out of Singapore appears to be coming true; I'm sure you will be delighted when more and more jobs are lost as a result. However, I think you'll find that it might actually make a difference to you all in the long run.

TLDR: see my signature below.

[* That's sarcasm, btw, in case you thought I meant it.]
Be careful what you wish for

singaporebornand bred
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Postby singaporebornand bred » Fri, 20 Jun 2014 6:43 pm

Mi Amigo wrote:
singaporebornand inbred wrote:Please lah, do you employ hundreds or thousands of SIngaporeans ? Employing less than 0.001% of singapore's population and you are claiming the right to criticise SIngaporeans.. We dont care if you pull out and get the hell out of SIngapore it wont make a difference to us at all !!!

Well, seeing as how you were so gracious in your reply to my post, I'll give you my response to your most erudite contribution above.*

First of all, I'll criticise whoever I want, you included. The difference is that I do this based on what a person does and/or says, not which country they come from or whichever race they might be.

I'll leave you to guess how many jobs we created for Singaporeans since I opened the regional office, but I'll tell you this: Very few (if any) will be added going forward, as Singapore is now viewed as an undesirable location, due to its high cost and difficulty of hiring people. My role was relocated to another city which is now considered to be the APAC HQ, so Singapore has lost out on future job growth.

All the evidence shows that many other companies are either scaling down or moving out completely, so your wish for employers to get the hell out of Singapore appears to be coming true; I'm sure you will be delighted when more and more jobs are lost as a result. However, I think you'll find that it might actually make a difference to you all in the long run.

TLDR: see my signature below.

[* That's sarcasm, btw, in case you thought I meant it.]




And i suppose it is your company that is paying the pay cheques not you yourself so it is not you who is employing the Singaporeans, but the company..

Back to topic, Singapore cannot and should not sacrifice our specific and national identity for the sake for economic and job growth, the fact is our people are not happy that our national identity have been diluted due to influx of foreigners.

With out without xenophobia , the fact that our countries are competitive and have their own appeal is something we cannot control .. Some losses in jobs are bound to happen


Last but not least, with the relocation of asia pac hub so will you be relocated as well ? If so. Congrats to you leaving the "hell hole" that Singapore is...

YOU WON'T BE MISSED AT ALL :cool:

I dont care...

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Fortan
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Postby Fortan » Fri, 20 Jun 2014 7:28 pm

singaporebornand bred wrote:Back to topic, Singapore cannot and should not sacrifice our specific and national identity for the sake for economic and job growth, the fact is our people are not happy that our national identity have been diluted due to influx of foreigners.


What national identity is that? Can you explain to me what national identity a Singaporean has - except being born in Singapore? What makes a Singaporean unique? I am just curious as I can't see the identity here. What I see is the opposite - a lack of identity. You don't have your own language, Singlish is taken from the neighboring countries mother tongue. A Singaporean is not Malay, you are not Chinese, you are not Indian but you are a Singaporean. With a 49 year old 'culture' that I can't see…. This is not a post to piss on Singaporeans or anything along those lines, I just don't see any culture here except for eating and talking about food - and of course shopping. However, I might be completely missing the Singaporean identity, even in my Singaporean friends… I just can't find it.

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Postby singaporebornand bred » Fri, 20 Jun 2014 7:34 pm

http://www.todayonline.com/singapore/ma ... osc-survey

Extract part of article..

[b]The preference for a less competitive environment appears to extend to the workplace. When presented with a choice between career advancement and a more comfortable pace of life, Singaporeans generally saw pace of life as more important relative to career pursuits. Singaporeans between the ages of 35 and 69, and those who are married with children, were most likely to choose a more comfortable pace of life as their preference in the survey.

On the inflow of foreigners, more Singaporeans preferred reducing it even if this translated to slower growth and jobs. Lower income groups were more inclined towards reducing the inflow of foreigners, which may be “a reflection of the competition for jobs at that level”

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Postby singaporebornand bred » Fri, 20 Jun 2014 7:36 pm

Fortan wrote:
singaporebornand bred wrote:Back to topic, Singapore cannot and should not sacrifice our specific and national identity for the sake for economic and job growth, the fact is our people are not happy that our national identity have been diluted due to influx of foreigners.


What national identity is that? Can you explain to me what national identity a Singaporean has - except being born in Singapore? What makes a Singaporean unique? I am just curious as I can't see the identity here. What I see is the opposite - a lack of identity. You don't have your own language, Singlish is taken from the neighboring countries mother tongue. A Singaporean is not Malay, you are not Chinese, you are not Indian but you are a Singaporean. With a 49 year old 'culture' that I can't see…. This is not a post to piss on Singaporeans or anything along those lines, I just don't see any culture here except for eating and talking about food - and of course shopping. However, I might be completely missing the Singaporean identity, even in my Singaporean friends… I just can't find it.


Our National Day celebrations, Merlion are National Day songs are uniquely Singaporean.. You won't find this anywhere else..

And singing national anthemn and reciting pledge in school every morning is not something done is all countries.

This may not be significant to you.. But it doesnt matter

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Postby morenangpinay » Fri, 20 Jun 2014 7:51 pm

That's not national identity. What's your core? I'm just curious


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