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CPF: Why the unhappiness?

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JR8
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Postby JR8 » Mon, 16 Jun 2014 7:50 pm

@ BoC
UK National Insurance contributions (paid each month) were meant to guarantee a state pension. Within the past 10-20 years that has totally gone to the wall, to the extent I have no idea what I might be entitled to, as I’m assuming I’m not. I don’t even have the motivation to check. A national Ponzi scheme? Think that can only happen in the UK? Note how SG keeps moving the pensionable age... [nodding]?

Apples vs apples. ‘Top-20’ pick (to the backing of ‘Whole Lotta Love’, w/Dave Lee Travis’s chest-wig) from the FTSE-100 yields income of c5.4%. On the capital side, in addition? I don’t actively track it, arguably it’s irrelevant (just graph the FTSE100 if interested). This is my personal ‘actively managed’ portfolio that takes half an hour of work a week and whips the butt of most funds, pensions, GIC, Temasek, CPF etc, and is essentially fee-free. No threats of bankruptcy, being purged, asylum on Sentosa... what is not to like. CPF is not just a pension, it’s political, it ties you one political party, one man, for life. It’s like having a UK pension tied to Cameron for life, or a US one tied to Obama for life, his highs, lows, and so on ...

p.s. Did I (lashed) run into you at the Beer-fest this week, or was that Nut2?

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sundaymorningstaple
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 16 Jun 2014 8:06 pm

ecureilx wrote:
Beeroclock wrote:]
In this case, it really depends how you view it. I mean, if the CPF is seen as a generous, subsidized interest rate (after adjusting for risk) intended to benefit citizens and PR's, it would be better actually to force those who renounce to withdraw all money immediately, so they can no long keep benefitting after having left. If you prohibit the lump sum withdrawal, it just means the Govt is continuing to subsidise/sponsor the retirement funding of these renouncers.[/b]


you misread something ..

only WEST Malaysians get the privilege of letting it earn interest when they leave Singapore .. till they reach retirement age of 55

all others don't get the option to leave CPF here ... when they depart SG, their account gets closed and anybody leaving SG, non MY PR or SCs giving up their Citizenship ... would want that money pronto than leaving it here. ... that's how I understood ...

and if they come back they must replace all the money back to CPF before even getting an EP. it is strictly enforced ...

if it was so, that will be like adding more fuel to the locals fire of demanding PR have all privileges revoked ... like demanding no HDB for non SC ...

for some voices insisting PRs leaving shouldn't get the money, I have this thought .. if so, allow PRs to choose not to contribute to CPF (avoiding money in CPF is one of the reason given by a few sub continent EP holders for refusing to apply PR .. like let me manage my money type of attitude ... )

if PRs are not allowed to get CPF when they leave what next? additional tax on PRs?

as it is PRs lost few privileges .. lesser subsidy in Hospitals, last in line for school ...


Not true at all. The owner of the little Red Kia I drive contributed to CPF during the Asia Badger / Mobile Oil refinery Upgrade project back in the late '80-early '90's as an EP holder as did I, also as an EP holder. Of course I remained here but he left came back on another project, left for a couple of more projects and came back again and took up PR. He continued to work here for around 3 years and then a new project took him to Indonesia where he's been for the past two years or so (hence me with his car). As such, they have subsequently lost their PR. However, his CPF still remains and has done so, since the 1990's. It keeps drawing interest and the government has no qualms around paying it, nor do they ask him to withdraw it. Remember, they used the CPF Funds to buy Singapore Government Guaranteed Bonds which, with the Country's AAA rating is probably the safest investment in the world. Mas, on the other hand, loans out it's funds which include government income from a number of sources from which they earn pretty decent returns however via GIC and Temasek. The CPF Savings are safe via MAS however, and CPF is insulated from any losses that may be incurred by GIC and Temasek.
Last edited by sundaymorningstaple on Mon, 16 Jun 2014 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PNGMK
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Postby PNGMK » Mon, 16 Jun 2014 8:07 pm

I don't know yet of any significant country that excludes PR leavers from withdrawing their super (Australia doesn't for example). However with the grasping of funds by many governments I can see a socialist gahmen nationalising private super (as in Australia) and grabbing the lot. Far fetched? Not really - WWII had some countries nationalising private wealth. If Singapore goes into a war or full scale depression I can easily see ALL CPF withdrawals halted.

My former Singapore boss who is Jewish (A Sassoon - Iraqi Jews into Singapore via British India) refused to put any money into CPF - a genetic history you might say of having his family wealth seized over and over. He had some complicated scheme to get around it.... He was astonished that I (half Jewish) didn't have the same aversion to CPF.

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Postby Beeroclock » Mon, 16 Jun 2014 9:55 pm

JR8 wrote:@ BoC
UK National Insurance contributions (paid each month) were meant to guarantee a state pension. Within the past 10-20 years that has totally gone to the wall, to the extent I have no idea what I might be entitled to, as I’m assuming I’m not. I don’t even have the motivation to check. A national Ponzi scheme? Think that can only happen in the UK? Note how SG keeps moving the pensionable age... [nodding]?

Apples vs apples. ‘Top-20’ pick (to the backing of ‘Whole Lotta Love’, w/Dave Lee Travis’s chest-wig) from the FTSE-100 yields income of c5.4%. On the capital side, in addition? I don’t actively track it, arguably it’s irrelevant (just graph the FTSE100 if interested). This is my personal ‘actively managed’ portfolio that takes half an hour of work a week and whips the butt of most funds, pensions, GIC, Temasek, CPF etc, and is essentially fee-free. No threats of bankruptcy, being purged, asylum on Sentosa... what is not to like. CPF is not just a pension, it’s political, it ties you one political party, one man, for life. It’s like having a UK pension tied to Cameron for life, or a US one tied to Obama for life, his highs, lows, and so on ...

p.s. Did I (lashed) run into you at the Beer-fest this week, or was that Nut2?

Not me at the beerfest... Sadly for me nowadays it's rarely BoC :cry:

I do agree with you equities will return more than fixed interest in long term, but with it an increased risk and volatility to be accepted, which is not for all. I also agree your DIY approach is a good idea and it can actually be done with the majority of your cpf balance if you so desire. I'm looking to apply it myself actually. Hopefully other people will also spread their portfolio to include some equities and have an upside return over the default cpf rate.

But purely on the point of 4% as an interest rate, I can't see how it is not generous for those whose alternatives here are high interest and time saver accounts around 1%. Even compared to most home loans where people will be paying around 1% interest. So if you say 4% is a cheap source of funds for the govt via cpf, then I'm more than happy to source funds for my property here at a quarter of that cheap rate!

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Postby Brah » Fri, 11 Jul 2014 8:45 am

Beeroclock wrote:Not me at the beerfest... Sadly for me nowadays it's rarely BoC :cry:

Don't worry, if it was the same beerfest I went to a couple of years ago, you didn't miss anything, very hot under the tent and it was a ripoff, none of the beers I tried I liked (but that could have just been my luck)


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