Singapore's work culture

[chris_pilgrim]

is it only me being too "sensitive" or is it true that employers here have no sense of time / courtesy / grace or whatever it is ... seems that they just love to email / text / whatapps their employees about work related matters even though it is weekend or when one is (as what the local calls) "on leave" ....



rant over

[sundaymorningstaple]

Welcome to Singapore. The honeymoon's over. Now you are beginning to understand why some, if not all, of us old timers are somewhat bemused at newbies who think is all great here. Wait till the shine wears off, yeah?

[singapore eagle]

I'm self-employed, but I often team up with one of the big 4 accounting firms here. The younger employees there are treated terribly by the partners and people aiming for partnership. The business model seems to be (a) work junior 70 hours a week (b) watch junior employee burn out and leave after 18 month (c) replace (d) go to step a.

[rajagainstthemachine]

I can't say hat it is a Singapore thing. In several industries esp IT its not uncommon to be "switched on" throughout the time.
some times people have to travel on weekends etc etc, as long as there is a compensatory mechanism at the end of it all I think its ok.

[zzm9980]

I'm self-employed, but I often team up with one of the big 4 accounting firms here. The younger employees there are treated terribly by the partners and people aiming for partnership. The business model seems to be (a) work junior 70 hours a week (b) watch junior employee burn out and leave after 18 month (c) replace (d) go to step a.

That's big 4 everywhere. Don't forget "pay them just above poverty level". In the Bay Area, Ca., they make mid 50k/year for the first few years. For the hours they work they could make more money at Starbucks.

[beppi]

This is the same, or worse (sometimes far worse) in all Asian countries I worked in, which is quite a number (Japan, Thailand, China, Taiwan, Malaysia, Indonesia). Be glad to be in Singapore and encounter a (relatively) mild version of it!

[Wd40]

My new company, the 1st day I saw lots of people still at their desks at 7PM.
My previous company, everyone keep looking at their watches and at sharp 6 you had a big crowd at the elevators and hard to get into them.

Also in my new company everyone come in at 9, by 9:15 whole office is full and at 6PM people are still working as if nothing happen. I just monitored the expression of people when the clock strikes 6. No change of expression, everyone still working like normal Its a company full of locals and a few people from a specific EU country.

Then yesterday, when I reached office(my 3rd day) and I was in sharp at 9, I read a mail from my manager to all team mates reminding them about punctuality and that the timings are 9 to 6 and 1 hr lunch that although there is some flexibility, especially for those who consistently stay late, don't take advantage of it. I am still wondering why he sent that mail and what message should I take from it. The message I take from it is I can go home after 6 and I don't care the whole office still at their desks

[chris_pilgrim]

@sundaymorningstaple. you're right. honeymoon period is definitely over and it's not much amazing working here.

also, i find that there's a lack of trust between employers and the employees here in sg. for example, when employees call in sick and have to produce a medical certificate to proof it?! what if a doctor is unwell? must he/she sees another doctor to proof that he/she is really sick? ridiculous init?

[PNGMK]

@sundaymorningstaple. you're right. honeymoon period is definitely over and it's not much amazing working here.

also, i find that there's a lack of trust between employers and the employees here in sg. for example, when employees call in sick and have to produce a medical certificate to proof it?! what if a doctor is unwell? must he/she sees another doctor to proof that he/she is really sick? ridiculous init?

Yes - no trust at all.

[Aragorn2000]

My new company, the 1st day I saw lots of people still at their desks at 7PM.
My previous company, everyone keep looking at their watches and at sharp 6 you had a big crowd at the elevators and hard to get into them.

Also in my new company everyone come in at 9, by 9:15 whole office is full and at 6PM people are still working as if nothing happen. I just monitored the expression of people when the clock strikes 6. No change of expression, everyone still working like normal Its a company full of locals and a few people from a specific EU country.

Then yesterday, when I reached office(my 3rd day) and I was in sharp at 9, I read a mail from my manager to all team mates reminding them about punctuality and that the timings are 9 to 6 and 1 hr lunch that although there is some flexibility, especially for those who consistently stay late, don't take advantage of it. I am still wondering why he sent that mail and what message should I take from it. The message I take from it is I can go home after 6 and I don't care the whole office still at their desks

Screw the manager. If they want punctuality, come in exactly at 9 and knock off exactly at 6. Don't give them flexibility when they give you none.

[zzm9980]

My new company, the 1st day I saw lots of people still at their desks at 7PM.
My previous company, everyone keep looking at their watches and at sharp 6 you had a big crowd at the elevators and hard to get into them.

Also in my new company everyone come in at 9, by 9:15 whole office is full and at 6PM people are still working as if nothing happen. I just monitored the expression of people when the clock strikes 6. No change of expression, everyone still working like normal Its a company full of locals and a few people from a specific EU country.

Then yesterday, when I reached office(my 3rd day) and I was in sharp at 9, I read a mail from my manager to all team mates reminding them about punctuality and that the timings are 9 to 6 and 1 hr lunch that although there is some flexibility, especially for those who consistently stay late, don't take advantage of it. I am still wondering why he sent that mail and what message should I take from it. The message I take from it is I can go home after 6 and I don't care the whole office still at their desks

Screw the manager. If they want punctuality, come in exactly at 9 and knock off exactly at 6. Don't give them flexibility when they give you none.

Wd40 is on a contract (see other thread) so unfortunately that may not be prudent advice if he wants the contract extended.

[zzm9980]

@sundaymorningstaple. you're right. honeymoon period is definitely over and it's not much amazing working here.

also, i find that there's a lack of trust between employers and the employees here in sg. for example, when employees call in sick and have to produce a medical certificate to proof it?! what if a doctor is unwell? must he/she sees another doctor to proof that he/she is really sick? ridiculous init?

There are multiple clinics every square km of this Island. You can visit anyone for any reason and almost never have more than a 15 minute wait. (Except perhaps during the 9-10am "m.c. rush" in HDB estates.) Local HR (and everyone else) knows this, so it's not very hard to get an MC certificate. As a foreigner you'll likely pay no more than $30 for the consultation and whatever the doctor prescribes. And you have insurance reimburse it anyway.

[The Ref]

@sundaymorningstaple. you're right. honeymoon period is definitely over and it's not much amazing working here.

also, i find that there's a lack of trust between employers and the employees here in sg. for example, when employees call in sick and have to produce a medical certificate to proof it?! what if a doctor is unwell? must he/she sees another doctor to proof that he/she is really sick? ridiculous init?

Yes - no trust at all.

Possibly there is no trust because many people see sick leave as an entitlement that must be taken as it doesn't roll over into a new year.

I know of people who make sure they take every "mc day" every year. The certificate just means you need to be in the country and not still on your weekend away - or to add that little bit of extra governance.

I rarely take a sick day and whenever I have my managers couldn't care about a MC although those that take many days are required to provide them.

Those who take many days probably think it is because I am Ang Moh that I don't need to provide one

[singapore eagle]

There are multiple clinics every square km of this Island. You can visit anyone for any reason and almost never have more than a 15 minute wait. (Except perhaps during the 9-10am "m.c. rush" in HDB estates.) Local HR (and everyone else) knows this, so it's not very hard to get an MC certificate. As a foreigner you'll likely pay no more than $30 for the consultation and whatever the doctor prescribes. And you have insurance reimburse it anyway.

This is true, but, if I'm feeling ill, the last thing I want to do is crawl out of bed, walk down in the hot sun to the clinic and sit in a room full of sick people.

[PNGMK]

There are multiple clinics every square km of this Island. You can visit anyone for any reason and almost never have more than a 15 minute wait. (Except perhaps during the 9-10am "m.c. rush" in HDB estates.) Local HR (and everyone else) knows this, so it's not very hard to get an MC certificate. As a foreigner you'll likely pay no more than $30 for the consultation and whatever the doctor prescribes. And you have insurance reimburse it anyway.

This is true, but, if I'm feeling ill, the last thing I want to do is crawl out of bed, walk down in the hot sun to the clinic and sit in a room full of sick people.

+1. In civilized first world countries you normally only have to provide a certificate from your third day of sick leave on.