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PR Approval Chances

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
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PNGMK
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Postby PNGMK » Fri, 06 Jun 2014 10:38 pm

opinionatedman wrote:
PNGMK wrote:10% for PR and a decent chance that you'll lose your EP as well (33%). Honestly I want you guys chucked out anyways. You really screw it up for the local yokels.

The job you do and the salary is absolutely a spot on fit for a local unemployed PMET as mentioned above. A solutions manager is just hype speak for an IT guy anyways. Plenty of those unemployed from the local labour pool.



Do you think that if locals could really do what these guys are doing then the companies were fools to take the trouble of searching the foreigner pool to get the exact match. In my company itself, we try and search locals and when we can't fill the space we go ahead and hire foreigners.

You are entitled to your opinion, but till the time Singapore wants to thrive on its tag as a financial hub, foreigners in this space will always remain, that is the fact my friend.


Yes I do think Singaporeans could AND WILL replace you. I believe the market is tilted against them for various structural reasons (everything from NS to the EP pay levels acting as a type of minimum wage system), but these corrections are being addressed every month. I've met plenty of smart Sinkies and there are more graduating every year. I support the right of a SC to your (or my job) any day if they are as good as you (or I) am. We are just guests in this country.

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Postby Wd40 » Fri, 06 Jun 2014 10:51 pm

Mi Amigo wrote:That's a nice perk; I've read on here about people being paid this but haven't come across many examples in 'real life'. Not sure whether it would count towards the 'salary' figure that the ICA will assess you on though.


Mi Amigo, we have discussed this topic to death :) :wink:

I am was an example, in my previous company. But ICA don't count it as part of salary. The company Annex 4A has no mention of it whatsoever.

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Postby Wd40 » Fri, 06 Jun 2014 10:59 pm

PNGMK wrote:10% for PR and a decent chance that you'll lose your EP as well (33%). Honestly I want you guys chucked out anyways. You really screw it up for the local yokels.

The job you do and the salary is absolutely a spot on fit for a local unemployed PMET as mentioned above. A solutions manager is just hype speak for an IT guy anyways. Plenty of those unemployed from the local labour pool.


I guess I found a new job in the nick of time before the jobs bank thingy kicks in and I have converted from PEP to EP. Even though my contract is 1 yr, my company has applied for EP for 2 years. Now the only thing I need to make sure if don't screw up anything and try and get my contract extended.

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Postby Wd40 » Fri, 06 Jun 2014 11:06 pm

I agree with OpinionatedMan, using anecdotal evidence. Its not that companies want to hire Indians or Filipinos for IT, but for some reason, there is a big shortage of locals in IT.

The current bank I am working for is a smallish bank and they don't have major IT systems and most staff are actual banking, accounting, finance etc. The company is almost 80% locals and that too Chinese. There are a few Europeans, from a specific country(I don't want to give out the name, or you will probably know which bank it is) but there are hardly 3-4 people in IT and I am one of them (an Indian) and another a Filipino and another a European.

I think I am the only 1 out of max 3 Indians in this company of about 150 staff. That girl is probably the only Filipino in the company. The Europeans in the company are from the same country that the bank is HQ'd. That goes to show that to hire an IT guy, 9 out of 10 times you will likely end up hiring an Indian or Filipino, not because you like it but may be because you didn't have any other choice.

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Postby Mi Amigo » Sat, 07 Jun 2014 1:54 am

Wd40 wrote:
Mi Amigo wrote:That's a nice perk; I've read on here about people being paid this but haven't come across many examples in 'real life'. Not sure whether it would count towards the 'salary' figure that the ICA will assess you on though.


Mi Amigo, we have discussed this topic to death :) :wink:

Well, yes, we have discussed it before (not sure whether it was 'to death'), but my question to the OP was to request clarification on what he meant by 'EP allowance' - I'd not seen it called that before. 'CPF (equivalence) allowance' might be a more accurate term.

I still don't believe it's that commonplace generally in Singapore though . :wink:
Be careful what you wish for

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Postby Strong Eagle » Sat, 07 Jun 2014 2:26 am

Mi Amigo wrote:
Wd40 wrote:
Mi Amigo wrote:That's a nice perk; I've read on here about people being paid this but haven't come across many examples in 'real life'. Not sure whether it would count towards the 'salary' figure that the ICA will assess you on though.


Mi Amigo, we have discussed this topic to death :) :wink:

Well, yes, we have discussed it before (not sure whether it was 'to death'), but my question to the OP was to request clarification on what he meant by 'EP allowance' - I'd not seen it called that before. 'CPF (equivalence) allowance' might be a more accurate term.

I still don't believe it's that commonplace generally in Singapore though . :wink:


It's taxable income. My company paid my employee portion of CPF and that was taxable income.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 07 Jun 2014 6:45 am

Agreed, it's taxable income in the eyes of the IRAS, however, it's not basic salary in the eyes of MOM or ICA. Therein lies the difference. It's the eyes of MOM they have to sway.

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Postby prasenjitsh » Sat, 07 Jun 2014 11:45 am

For ICA yes it's not the basic salary. For MOM yes, it's consider under Monthly Fixed Income (Basic Salary + Fixed Monthly Allowance) .

I know one guy who is earning around 6K & recently got married. When he applied for EP renewal he was downgraded to S pass. does it mean your salary will be calculated based on your monthly salary divided by no of dependent?
Now a days it's very hard to know on which criteria we are falling. :)

I've one stupid question. How a local/foreigner can replace a people who is working is same bank/project for last 4-5 years. How the domain/business knowledge will be transferred? I understand, if you are switching job, then a foreigner should compete with local to get the job but for existing position it should not be applied because the knowledge can't be transferred to any one so easily where u worked for last 4-5 years

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Postby Saint » Sat, 07 Jun 2014 12:41 pm

prasenjitsh wrote:Hi,
I dont have 13th Month Bonus. My CTC is $7200. So in my ep renewal form it will be mentioned as $7200/month.
I know the local news that you are referring. But also it depends on the company revenue. I have seen Company like Optimum,robert walters & other big consultancies are not getting impacted due to this change. I know people from this consultancies or bank are getting 2years EP in salary range $6K.
Thats the reason I made the assumption.
I'm with same company for last 4years and my salary increase more than 100%. I think the increment & past employment record also matter while renewing EP. Not sure though. Neverthless, lets c how thing goes.


Sorry for typos- send from mobile device


The one important thing you are forgetting, you aren't renewing you EP, you will be applying for a new first time EP, totally different ball game

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 07 Jun 2014 12:45 pm

prasenjitsh wrote:For ICA yes it's not the basic salary. For MOM yes, it's consider under Monthly Fixed Income (Basic Salary + Fixed Monthly Allowance) .

Yes, and you can bet that MOM knows what the "fixed monthly allowance" is for (simple math). Therefore they will discount that and base on the actual salary. Simples.

I know one guy who is earning around 6K & recently got married. When he applied for EP renewal he was downgraded to S pass. does it mean your salary will be calculated based on your monthly salary divided by no of dependent?

So if you know a person was downgraded at 6K to an S pass, what makes you think you are safe? Sad to say, your statement on dividing salary by dependents is rather stupid. The person probably no longer qualified for the EP based on the newer, stricter Criteria. Even if he is qualified using the online tool, that only means he is qualified to apply, not necessarily to actually receive it. A lot of S pass holders are not being renewed, again, for similar reasons, they no longer fall within the newer, more stringent criteria. Additionally, even if the academic criteria is met, if he is not being paid according to the supposed level of experience he has claimed, he will also be downgraded. So all those padded CV's and other BS can backfire on someone if they are not drawing the salary based on all that so-called knowledge.

Now a days it's very hard to know on which criteria we are falling. :)

That is done deliberately, because of a lot of people from certain countries who keep trying to game the system. They are going to game themselves right out of Singapore. Not soon enough, though.

I've one stupid question. How a local/foreigner can replace a people who is working is same bank/project for last 4-5 years. How the domain/business knowledge will be transferred? I understand, if you are switching job, then a foreigner should compete with local to get the job but for existing position it should not be applied because the knowledge can't be transferred to any one so easily where u worked for last 4-5 years

Sure it can. If you believe otherwise, you are grossly being overpaid. Nobody is irreplaceable. Inconvenient for a while, possibly, but believe me, you CAN be replaced. Don't believe me? Dare them.

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Postby prasenjitsh » Sat, 07 Jun 2014 1:08 pm

Hi Saint,

I got your point. Anyways it can be a long discussion what will happen, how things will go. better to wait till October, I'm planning to my EP renewal/fresh that time. I will let you guys know the outcome. If I'm staying in Singapore or moving out for other country :)

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Postby prasenjitsh » Sat, 07 Jun 2014 1:18 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
prasenjitsh wrote:For ICA yes it's not the basic salary. For MOM yes, it's consider under Monthly Fixed Income (Basic Salary + Fixed Monthly Allowance) .

Yes, and you can bet that MOM knows what the "fixed monthly allowance" is for (simple math). Therefore they will discount that and base on the actual salary. Simples.

I know one guy who is earning around 6K & recently got married. When he applied for EP renewal he was downgraded to S pass. does it mean your salary will be calculated based on your monthly salary divided by no of dependent?

So if you know a person was downgraded at 6K to an S pass, what makes you think you are safe? Sad to say, your statement on dividing salary by dependents is rather stupid. The person probably no longer qualified for the EP based on the newer, stricter Criteria. Even if he is qualified using the online tool, that only means he is qualified to apply, not necessarily to actually receive it. A lot of S pass holders are not being renewed, again, for similar reasons, they no longer fall within the newer, more stringent criteria. Additionally, even if the academic criteria is met, if he is not being paid according to the supposed level of experience he has claimed, he will also be downgraded. So all those padded CV's and other BS can backfire on someone if they are not drawing the salary based on all that so-called knowledge.

Now a days it's very hard to know on which criteria we are falling. :)

That is done deliberately, because of a lot of people from certain countries who keep trying to game the system. They are going to game themselves right out of Singapore. Not soon enough, though.

I've one stupid question. How a local/foreigner can replace a people who is working is same bank/project for last 4-5 years. How the domain/business knowledge will be transferred? I understand, if you are switching job, then a foreigner should compete with local to get the job but for existing position it should not be applied because the knowledge can't be transferred to any one so easily where u worked for last 4-5 years

Sure it can. If you believe otherwise, you are grossly being overpaid. Nobody is irreplaceable. Inconvenient for a while, possibly, but believe me, you CAN be replaced. Don't believe me? Dare them.


Yes, I admit it's stupidity to think salary divided by 2 for EP. But it may be possible since MOM will check if he has capability to support his dependent.
Other point is may be his company. The company is not known one. small consultancy. I heard companies like Accenture/VISA/Robert Walters/McGregor Boyall are not facing problems while applying EP. because I've seen people from these consultancies getting EP approved in 6K salary range. again its debatable I know.
anyways my appraisal is coming & by the trend I will get around 1K~1.5K so the salary range will be around 100K. Hope fully will not be any issue. but as you guys highlighted "You Never Know" :)
I will post the outcome of EP renewal/fresh

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Postby Wd40 » Sat, 07 Jun 2014 4:45 pm

Mi Amigo wrote:
Wd40 wrote:
Mi Amigo wrote:That's a nice perk; I've read on here about people being paid this but haven't come across many examples in 'real life'. Not sure whether it would count towards the 'salary' figure that the ICA will assess you on though.


Mi Amigo, we have discussed this topic to death :) :wink:

Well, yes, we have discussed it before (not sure whether it was 'to death'), but my question to the OP was to request clarification on what he meant by 'EP allowance' - I'd not seen it called that before. 'CPF (equivalence) allowance' might be a more accurate term.

I still don't believe it's that commonplace generally in Singapore though . :wink:


Yupp, not a common place. Until now I have heard about 3 banks paying it, my guess was OP is also working for banking, but then the companies that he has listed are like consulting companies, so I guess he is working a similar one.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 07 Jun 2014 4:46 pm

prasenjitsh wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:
prasenjitsh wrote:For ICA yes it's not the basic salary. For MOM yes, it's consider under Monthly Fixed Income (Basic Salary + Fixed Monthly Allowance) .

Yes, and you can bet that MOM knows what the "fixed monthly allowance" is for (simple math). Therefore they will discount that and base on the actual salary. Simples.

I know one guy who is earning around 6K & recently got married. When he applied for EP renewal he was downgraded to S pass. does it mean your salary will be calculated based on your monthly salary divided by no of dependent?

So if you know a person was downgraded at 6K to an S pass, what makes you think you are safe? Sad to say, your statement on dividing salary by dependents is rather stupid. The person probably no longer qualified for the EP based on the newer, stricter Criteria. Even if he is qualified using the online tool, that only means he is qualified to apply, not necessarily to actually receive it. A lot of S pass holders are not being renewed, again, for similar reasons, they no longer fall within the newer, more stringent criteria. Additionally, even if the academic criteria is met, if he is not being paid according to the supposed level of experience he has claimed, he will also be downgraded. So all those padded CV's and other BS can backfire on someone if they are not drawing the salary based on all that so-called knowledge.

Now a days it's very hard to know on which criteria we are falling. :)

That is done deliberately, because of a lot of people from certain countries who keep trying to game the system. They are going to game themselves right out of Singapore. Not soon enough, though.

I've one stupid question. How a local/foreigner can replace a people who is working is same bank/project for last 4-5 years. How the domain/business knowledge will be transferred? I understand, if you are switching job, then a foreigner should compete with local to get the job but for existing position it should not be applied because the knowledge can't be transferred to any one so easily where u worked for last 4-5 years

Sure it can. If you believe otherwise, you are grossly being overpaid. Nobody is irreplaceable. Inconvenient for a while, possibly, but believe me, you CAN be replaced. Don't believe me? Dare them.


Yes, I admit it's stupidity to think salary divided by 2 for EP. But it may be possible since MOM will check if he has capability to support his dependent.

Why do you think the new EP isn't divided into Q, P2 & P1 any more but is tiered by income and that determines whether you can have dependents and more distant dependents like the EP holder's parents. MOM have already taken all that into consideration when they gave the income levels and made the allocations accordingly.


Other point is may be his company. The company is not known one. small consultancy. I heard companies like Accenture/VISA/Robert Walters/McGregor Boyall are not facing problems while applying EP. because I've seen people from these consultancies getting EP approved in 6K salary range. again its debatable I know.
anyways my appraisal is coming & by the trend I will get around 1K~1.5K so the salary range will be around 100K. Hope fully will not be any issue. but as you guys highlighted "You Never Know" :)
I will post the outcome of EP renewal/fresh


Please do. You will probably get it renewed, but we are telling you what CAN happen. We've seen it already. Good Luck.

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Postby Wd40 » Sat, 07 Jun 2014 4:51 pm

prasenjitsh wrote:
Yes, I admit it's stupidity to think salary divided by 2 for EP. But it may be possible since MOM will check if he has capability to support his dependent.
Other point is may be his company. The company is not known one. small consultancy. I heard companies like Accenture/VISA/Robert Walters/McGregor Boyall are not facing problems while applying EP. because I've seen people from these consultancies getting EP approved in 6K salary range. again its debatable I know.
anyways my appraisal is coming & by the trend I will get around 1K~1.5K so the salary range will be around 100K. Hope fully will not be any issue. but as you guys highlighted "You Never Know" :)
I will post the outcome of EP renewal/fresh


Wow! That is big hike in the current environment where many people are struggling to hold on to their jobs. Especially in Banking, plenty of people haven't had hikes since they came to Singapore 4-5 years ago.

So by trend you mean, every year you get 1-1.5k raise a month? :o


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