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Tenancy Agreement - Legal Standing on Visitors

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sxr
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Tenancy Agreement - Legal Standing on Visitors

Postby sxr » Tue, 27 May 2014 11:21 pm

Hello,

Me and my wife are in Singapore for an year now on EP and have rented an whole unit (HDB).

My parents will be visiting us (for about 3 months) to help us during our pregnancy. Our new tenancy agreement mentions only about occupants but does not specify anything about "visitors". Can the landlord LEGALLY reject my request to let my parents stay with us? The question arises because my parents are not "occupants" but they would be "visitors".

What are the chances that the landlords do reject requests to allow "visitors" in theirs flat. In case my landlord rejects, can I request to have the TA amended to include my parents as "occupants".

I am too concerned with this because of the fact that my landlord got pissed off when I asked him to fix the door knobs when I moved in, and I suspect that he holds a grudge.

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Postby PNGMK » Wed, 28 May 2014 12:18 am

If it's a legal HDB sublet or lease (i.e. LL has permission from HDB) I don't see a problem.

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x9200
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Postby x9200 » Wed, 28 May 2014 6:49 am

Yep, if you don't have anything in your TA saying no visitors are allowed, you don't need to ask the LL for permission.

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Postby ScoobyDoes » Wed, 28 May 2014 10:43 am

You don't need to inform anybody, legally.

We did, however, inform our landlords my parents would be staying for 2-months for their annual holiday but we had reasonable relationships as well. Anyway I just advised them we were well aware of double checking the Immigration Stamps for the allowable length of stay and would comply with dates, doing trips into Malaysia for a day or two if required.

Legally speaking the landlord has a responsibility to ensure there are no illegals living in his property, regardless of the tenancy.
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Postby PNGMK » Wed, 28 May 2014 11:20 am

ScoobyDoes wrote:You don't need to inform anybody, legally.

We did, however, inform our landlords my parents would be staying for 2-months for their annual holiday but we had reasonable relationships as well. Anyway I just advised them we were well aware of double checking the Immigration Stamps for the allowable length of stay and would comply with dates, doing trips into Malaysia for a day or two if required.

Legally speaking the landlord has a responsibility to ensure there are no illegals living in his property, regardless of the tenancy.


This ^^^ - the LL's are shit scared of being fined.

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Postby Strong Eagle » Wed, 28 May 2014 12:11 pm

PNGMK wrote:
ScoobyDoes wrote:You don't need to inform anybody, legally.

We did, however, inform our landlords my parents would be staying for 2-months for their annual holiday but we had reasonable relationships as well. Anyway I just advised them we were well aware of double checking the Immigration Stamps for the allowable length of stay and would comply with dates, doing trips into Malaysia for a day or two if required.

Legally speaking the landlord has a responsibility to ensure there are no illegals living in his property, regardless of the tenancy.


This ^^^ - the LL's are shit scared of being fined.


Eh? Two landlords over a period of eight years never once asked about who was living in my house. I don't think they were "shit scared" at all.

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Postby x9200 » Wed, 28 May 2014 12:43 pm

Us neither. I think a more common case are the LL who just wish to control every aspect associated with their property. Frankly, if the presence of the visitors does not have any excessive impact on the property condition this is no-ones business what kind of people and for how long visit me.

LL's responsibility ends with proper check and monitoring of the tenants, not their visitors.

http://www.ica.gov.sg/page.aspx?pageid=328
See the check-list, it's about passes, not visas, not passport stamps. It would be absurd to make LL responsible for a temporary visitors as (s)he has no practical means to ensure of their presence and legal stay.

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Postby JR8 » Wed, 28 May 2014 12:59 pm

I wouldn't worry, as others have said I can't see a problem.

If the landlord found out and started asking questions, I'd perhaps just say they're taking an opportunity to both visit you, and also use SG as a hub (hey, all the budget airlines are a great opportunity!) to explore the region. i.e. They're in SG for maybe 2-3 weeks at a time, then spending a week traveling by train up to KL and then to Bangkok, another week to visit Kuching, another week in Tioman or Penang, the Philippines, Angkor Wat .... and on, and on ...

How time flies...

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Postby therat » Wed, 28 May 2014 2:28 pm

PNGMK wrote:
ScoobyDoes wrote:You don't need to inform anybody, legally.

We did, however, inform our landlords my parents would be staying for 2-months for their annual holiday but we had reasonable relationships as well. Anyway I just advised them we were well aware of double checking the Immigration Stamps for the allowable length of stay and would comply with dates, doing trips into Malaysia for a day or two if required.

Legally speaking the landlord has a responsibility to ensure there are no illegals living in his property, regardless of the tenancy.


This ^^^ - the LL's are shit scared of being fined.


Not just fined.
They might had their HDB flats repossessed.
Jail term too

Refer to https://www.google.com/url?q=https://ww ... MMKvRsTwXA

page 5

... he may be sentenced to imprisonment of not less than 6 mth and not more than 2 yrs and fine not exceeding $6k.

OR

... he may be sentenced to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 mths OR a fine not exceeding $6k. OR to both.

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Postby JR8 » Wed, 28 May 2014 2:38 pm

therat wrote:Not just fined.
They might had their HDB flats repossessed.
Jail term too

Refer to https://www.google.com/url?q=https://ww ... MMKvRsTwXA

page 5

... he may be sentenced to imprisonment of not less than 6 mth and not more than 2 yrs and fine not exceeding $6k.

OR

... he may be sentenced to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 mths OR a fine not exceeding $6k. OR to both.




And if they're as described, i.e. not illegal or over-stayers, the consequences beyond NOTHING, are ? :???:

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Postby PNGMK » Wed, 28 May 2014 3:19 pm

JR8 wrote:
therat wrote:Not just fined.
They might had their HDB flats repossessed.
Jail term too

Refer to https://www.google.com/url?q=https://ww ... MMKvRsTwXA

page 5

... he may be sentenced to imprisonment of not less than 6 mth and not more than 2 yrs and fine not exceeding $6k.

OR

... he may be sentenced to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 mths OR a fine not exceeding $6k. OR to both.




And if they're as described, i.e. not illegal or over-stayers, the consequences beyond NOTHING, are ? :???:


The onus is on the owner (the LL) to ascertain his tenants / visitors / guests are legal. Guilty til proven innocent. In your case they probably safely made the assumption that you weren't illegal. (Illegals rent HDB in the main).

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Postby sxr » Wed, 28 May 2014 7:07 pm

Thank you all for your responses. Given that I and my visitors will be staying in Singapore legally (in a HDB approved unit), I should not expect any trouble from my LL.

PS: I have already written-off my security deposit. If LL gives it back I will be doubly happy. But is there a Tenancy Deposit Protection Act in Singapore?


This is what my TA says:
To permit only Two (2) occupant(s) who are registered herein to occupy the Premises.
The Tenant(s) and occupant(s) are to be in compliance with all the rules and regulations
relating to the Immigration Act and the Employment of Foreign Workers Act (if applicable)
and any other law in the Republic of Singapore which relates to foreign residents. The
Tenant will provide the Landlord upon request physical inspection of all immigration and
employment documents, including but not limited to the passports of all non-local
occupants, employment pass and/or work permits, proof of employment, and to provide
the Landlord with certified true copies of such documents. Furthermore, to authorize,
permit and cooperate with the landlord to make such enquires with relevant authorities to
verify the same. In the event that the Two (2) occupant(s) who are registered herein
should permanently leave the premises, the tenant shall not, without the permission of the
landlord, allow any other occupants to occupy or stay at the premises.

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Postby JR8 » Wed, 28 May 2014 8:25 pm

I'd loooooove to see how 'occupant' is defined.....

Is our cleaner who does a 3/hr stint a week an occupant? How about my aged parents staying for a weekend?


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