Singapore Expats Forum

So being a virgin (male) at 22 & 2.5 years of college = fail

Discuss about the latest news & interesting topics, real life experience or other out of topic discussions with locals & expatriates in Singapore.

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16514
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010
Location: K. Puki Manis

Postby JR8 » Thu, 12 Jun 2014 10:34 am

x9200 wrote:As far as I understand Obama has not proposed anything drastic to limit access to the guns. Just more stringent criteria to qualify for possession and restriction of some types. Still the congress rejected it. This is really bad.


If a president could just go and trample at will, over constitutionally protected rights, then America would not be the success that it is.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 35168
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 12 Jun 2014 10:43 am

^^This.

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16514
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010
Location: K. Puki Manis

Postby JR8 » Thu, 12 Jun 2014 10:44 am

Beeroclock wrote:Anyway, I never fully understood the US political and legislative system, but seems very wrong to me the President appears impotent on such an important issue. Openly admitting the NRA is just too powerful, Congress is "terrified" and therefore he can't do anything :cry:


A good starting point is to read the US Constitution, and consider why it begins 'We the people... ' rather than 'I the current President'.

User avatar
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9319
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009
Location: Singapore

Postby x9200 » Thu, 12 Jun 2014 10:47 am

I am not advocating for anything like this, just saying that the decision of the congress reflects the state of the affairs and that nothing is going to change in any foreseeable future. Shootings in schools will continue.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 35168
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 12 Jun 2014 10:55 am

One recurring theme seems to be take out some students and then off yourself. This is purely psychological. So, if you take guns out of the equation by banning/confiscating or otherwise preventing access to guns, then, because the nature of the problem is psychological, those hellbent on destruction will just make pipe bombs, pressure cooker bombs, etc., etc. and instead of taking out a dozen they can possibly take out many dozens including themselves just like any other jihadist terrorist bomber. After all, they tend to commit suicide anyway rather than be caught.

User avatar
zzm9980
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6842
Joined: Wed, 06 Jul 2011
Location: Once more unto the breach

Postby zzm9980 » Thu, 12 Jun 2014 11:23 am

x9200 wrote:I am not advocating for anything like this, just saying that the decision of the congress reflects the state of the affairs and that nothing is going to change in any foreseeable future. Shootings in schools will continue.


And as bad as school shootings are, amazingly the US won't collapse into a failed state over it.

See what JR8 said.

User avatar
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9319
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009
Location: Singapore

Postby x9200 » Thu, 12 Jun 2014 11:24 am

It's very much about accessibility and opportunity. Making any "mass impact" destruction devices requires some effort, some purchasing and planing (they can also be intercepted by the police/FBI/whatever at these stages), some technical knowledge. They don't need anything like this at the moment, they already have the devices in their hands.

User avatar
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9319
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009
Location: Singapore

Postby x9200 » Thu, 12 Jun 2014 11:35 am

zzm9980 wrote:
x9200 wrote:I am not advocating for anything like this, just saying that the decision of the congress reflects the state of the affairs and that nothing is going to change in any foreseeable future. Shootings in schools will continue.


And as bad as school shootings are, amazingly the US won't collapse into a failed state over it.

See what JR8 said.


I entirely miss this point as I did not advocated for any undemocratic changes just merely pointed to the fact that US has a serious problem that is not going to be solved. I am not attacking the US democratic system. Ultimately the US citizens pay the price for all this. I wrote a few comments earlier in this thread and they still hold. I don't simply get it. There is no logic in all this personal freedom - guns puzzles and no consequence.

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16514
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010
Location: K. Puki Manis

Postby JR8 » Thu, 12 Jun 2014 11:43 am

'The Land of the Too-Free' :lol:

User avatar
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9319
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009
Location: Singapore

Postby x9200 » Thu, 12 Jun 2014 12:45 pm

Interesting data after Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politi ... ted_States

As of January 2014

40% are satisfied with the current state of gun laws, 55% are dissatisfied
31% want stricter control, 16% want less strict laws

[..]

somehow it looks this model democracy does not work in some parts..

National Rifle Association
A member poll conducted for the NRA between January 13 and January 14, 2013 found:

90.7% of members favor "Reforming our mental health laws to help keep firearms out of the hands of people with mental illness." (A majority of 86.4% believe that strengthening laws this way would be more effective at preventing mass murders than banning semi-automatic rifles.)

[..]


Isn't over the line Obama wanted to get in the congress?

User avatar
PNGMK
Governor
Governor
Posts: 5764
Joined: Thu, 21 Mar 2013
Location: Sinkapore

Postby PNGMK » Thu, 12 Jun 2014 12:57 pm

I think you need a generational change to occur for any changes in attitudes towards guns. The hipset/gen whatever group seem to be a little less pro gun so perhaps they will work on state level laws etc.

Personally I can see a clever president or perhaps a clever director of the bureau of ATF etc or even a side bureau like Mining deciding to ban or heavily restrict or tax the sale of a key element of ammunition (for example mercury or a critical component of gun powder).... this then reduces the amount of ammo available which is stockpiled/used up and hence reduces the number of shooting incidents.

Guns are protected by the constitution, not necessarily ammo.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 35168
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 12 Jun 2014 1:05 pm

PNGMK wrote:I think you need a generational change to occur for any changes in attitudes towards guns. The hipset/gen whatever group seem to be a little less pro gun so perhaps they will work on state level laws etc.

Personally I can see a clever president or perhaps a clever director of the bureau of ATF etc or even a side bureau like Mining deciding to ban or heavily restrict or tax the sale of a key element of ammunition (for example mercury or a critical component of gun powder).... this then reduces the amount of ammo available which is stockpiled/used up and hence reduces the number of shooting incidents.

Guns are protected by the constitution, not necessarily ammo.


Already trying to some extent. But it doesn't fly. Yet.

http://www.newswithviews.com/NWV-News/news343.htm

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16514
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010
Location: K. Puki Manis

Postby JR8 » Thu, 12 Jun 2014 1:57 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Already trying to some extent. But it doesn't fly. Yet. http://www.newswithviews.com/NWV-News/news343.htm


Pretty much sums up those who are opposed to freedom ...

-------------------------------------------------
'The U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia ruled that it had dismissed a lawsuit brought by the anti-hunting Center for Biological Diversity and six other left-wing groups which demanded that President Barack Obama's powerful EPA ban traditional ammunition containing lead components.
--------------------------------------------------

User avatar
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9319
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009
Location: Singapore

Postby x9200 » Thu, 12 Jun 2014 2:18 pm

JR8 wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:Already trying to some extent. But it doesn't fly. Yet. http://www.newswithviews.com/NWV-News/news343.htm


Pretty much sums up those who are opposed to freedom ...

-------------------------------------------------
'The U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia ruled that it had dismissed a lawsuit brought by the anti-hunting Center for Biological Diversity and six other left-wing groups which demanded that President Barack Obama's powerful EPA ban traditional ammunition containing lead components.
--------------------------------------------------


I don't think it can be that easily solved on the legislation level if there is explicit right to use in the constitution. If this right to use is de facto significantly restricted by a "local" law (whatever reason, lead, unjustified taxes etc) then I expect this is against the constitution.

Beeroclock
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 718
Joined: Thu, 31 Oct 2013

Postby Beeroclock » Thu, 12 Jun 2014 2:47 pm

x9200 wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:
x9200 wrote:I am not advocating for anything like this, just saying that the decision of the congress reflects the state of the affairs and that nothing is going to change in any foreseeable future. Shootings in schools will continue.


And as bad as school shootings are, amazingly the US won't collapse into a failed state over it.

See what JR8 said.


I entirely miss this point as I did not advocated for any undemocratic changes just merely pointed to the fact that US has a serious problem that is not going to be solved. I am not attacking the US democratic system. Ultimately the US citizens pay the price for all this. I wrote a few comments earlier in this thread and they still hold. I don't simply get it. There is no logic in all this personal freedom - guns puzzles and no consequence.


Yup I'm with you, and for the second time in this thread have to accept that perhaps I just don't get it. I do note however that the US President, elected by the US people (twice) has very closely echoed my earlier comment, so perhaps it's not only x9200 and me in this boat.

Also to re-state once again, I don't intend US bash in these posts. Actually I would say my getting upset about these recurring incidents is a reflection of caring about the US, wanting the school shootings there to stop, and just trying to understand the logic.


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “General Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests