Singapore Expats

I worked for a bank before, and they do background checks. They ask you upon hiring to provide contact persons for each company you have worked for. For a previous employer to deny having employed that person means screwing with somebody's career for no reason other than vengeance or pettiness. (Unless the company explicitly states to the caller that they will not confirm anyone's employment.)

PNGMK, IMHO you should either give the same answer for all former employees - either confirm their previous employment, or reply saying that you do not give such confirmation on a general basis. Anything else is just petty.

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Frankly, I can almost see PNGMK's point. The company is doing them a favour. If they are job hoppers (less than two years on the job - assuming that they are not Project types of workers, but on permanent hire) then if they called me, and the HR point of his old company, what can I say. If I cannot say anything positive then refusing to give any kind of character reference, I am absolved from either a) pumping him up, knowing he's a job hopper; or b) giving him a bad character reference - which would be deserved. Therefore, without the character reference the new potential employer would have to use the information on the CV and that he could glean out of the employee. If the employee doesn't have a termination letter, he's going to have to be creative trying to justify why he's left the old employer. That way he can stab himself in the back without the former employer, he's stabbed in the back, doing it.

I have no problem with not giving character references. The references hold no values anyway.

But PNGMK said his company wouldn't even confirm the existence of an ex-employee to avoid litigation!

By extension, to avoid litigation, universities can deny verification of their degrees, or police can deny confirming police reports, or social security denies verifying birth certificates! No body exists! The world is a simulation!

I thought I was in Sim City! What was the other online virtual world we don't hear about anymore? (or at least I don't hear about it).

Most reputable companies wont call another company anyway, unless the employee has given permission to do so. Also they know, just as I know, there is not a way to verify who is on the other end of the line. If you want a reference, or verification, send me an email from your company server and an attached document on your letterhead with the references/queries you want and I'll try to answer what I can. If I feel it's not required, I'll not answer those questions but will confirm he is/was employed by us.

Beeroclock wrote:

Wd40 wrote:

bro75 wrote: I have never experienced this. Maybe this is an industry specific practice? You do not want your boss to know that you are applying to other companies. You also do not want your colleagues to know sometimes as there could be a leak to management.

Yes, some employer ask for relevant character reference normally a former colleague or superior or school professor but rarely a current one.

This is after accepting a new offer and resigning your old company. During the notice period is when the new employer/their agency do the background verification.

Seems very strange and too late. What if background check turns up a problem, you have already resigned and accepted?

I thought referee check is last step before getting an offer and yes unlikely to be anyone from the current employer.

This happens with banks. I have experienced this with 2 banks myself and also 2 other banks where my friends work. I have also provided reference for one of my colleagues and he had accepted an offer at ANZ.Its after you accept the offer, they carry out the background verification, only to check if you have done something wrong in previous company or produced any forged documents. Its not too late and in case the person has wilfully provided wrong information about previous employment or done any other malpractice its only then the background verification fails and he rightly doesn't get the job.

Its not just in Singapore, I have experienced this in India also.

PNGMK wrote:

Wd40 wrote:

bro75 wrote: I have never experienced this. Maybe this is an industry specific practice? You do not want your boss to know that you are applying to other companies. You also do not want your colleagues to know sometimes as there could be a leak to management.

Yes, some employer ask for relevant character reference normally a former colleague or superior or school professor but rarely a current one.

This is after accepting a new offer and resigning your old company. During the notice period is when the new employer/their agency do the background verification.

I've never had this happen. Maybe they only do it with shady characters?

In my profession

you are hired by people who know you by your work - wtf would they ring your old boss if they've prior knowledge of your ability?

I have no idea how it works in Oil and gas. But in banking, this is the norm for everyone, not just shady characters.

What employees (the smarter, streetwise ones) do when they leave our company is to;
1. Make sure they have a few business cards.,
2. Print out their org chart and title and position from the internal employee management system.
3. Make sure they have a copy of their very first payslip and last few.
4. Weasle word their boss into taking a call as a personal favour - I normally say 'no' now after having been burnt by ex employees.
5. Steal the company ID card they are issued ("Lost" it). Not recommended.
6. Steal some letter head to create referal letters and 'get out of jail' lettters. Not recommended.
7. Use referrals from their former bosses who have also left that MNC. Has limited value but better than nothing.

None of these on a company computer of course. This is the trend with larger MNC's - once you've left us - we don't care about you.

As for the other matters some of those institutions have either legal obligation or legal protection to cover their asses. My uni's in Australia allow you to look up my name and degree online but for full proof I need to provide a whole bunch more info and even then they will NEVER re-issue an original diploma or transcript - any diploma or transcripts are re-issued in black and white only and stamped "COPY" all over.

The subconns and Chinese fakers and chancers stuffed for a lot of us - not just themselves with their tomfoolery.

A lot of companies I know of have automated employee referral systems. Phone numbers future HR can call, provide an employee ID, and the system validates if you were an employee and your dates of employment. 100% automated, cannot provide additional info. You would have to provide future HR your former employee ID number so they have your implied consent.

sundaymorningstaple wrote:I thought I was in Sim City! What was the other online virtual world we don't hear about anymore? (or at least I don't hear about it).

Second Life? Anyway, the new sim madness has arrived. Gluing eyes to smartphone is nothing compared with this

Aragorn2000 wrote:

sundaymorningstaple wrote:I thought I was in Sim City! What was the other online virtual world we don't hear about anymore? (or at least I don't hear about it).

Second Life? Anyway, the new sim madness has arrived. Gluing eyes to smartphone is nothing compared with this

:joke:

Facebook, a company with zombifying products, has bought over Oculus. So let's brace for a new wave of Oculus-wearing Facebook-staring zombies walking on the street, which will be the ultimate eyes-not-looking-ahead peeve.

the lynx wrote:

Aragorn2000 wrote:

sundaymorningstaple wrote:I thought I was in Sim City! What was the other online virtual world we don't hear about anymore? (or at least I don't hear about it).

Second Life? Anyway, the new sim madness has arrived. Gluing eyes to smartphone is nothing compared with this

:joke:

Facebook, a company with zombifying products, has bought over Oculus. So let's brace for a new wave of Oculus-wearing Facebook-staring zombies walking on the street, which will be the ultimate eyes-not-looking-ahead peeve.

With an island full of 1st adopter unconscious zombie-types, it will probably not be a joke at all but the sad truth.

zzm9980 wrote:A lot of companies I know of have automated employee referral systems. Phone numbers future HR can call, provide an employee ID, and the system validates if you were an employee and your dates of employment. 100% automated, cannot provide additional info. You would have to provide future HR your former employee ID number so they have your implied consent.

That's a useful system. Doesn't exist where I work tho.

An additional resource that I've used in the past when assessing potential new employees is their LinkedIn profile; specifically whether they have recommendations from colleagues / bosses. It can also provide a mechanism outside of the company's internal communication system to contact (only with the candidate's prior consent of course) people whose opinions would be helpful.

Mi Amigo wrote:An additional resource that I've used in the past when assessing potential new employees is their LinkedIn profile; specifically whether they have recommendations from colleagues / bosses. It can also provide a mechanism outside of the company's internal communication system to contact (only with the candidate's prior consent of course) people whose opinions would be helpful.

Lots of people I know have linkedIn profiles, but don't use it for the referrals. It's gotten quite spammy. I wouldn't take a lack of LI referrals for someone as anything more than those in a position to refer them aren't heavy LI users.

Good point about the increasing 'spamminess' on LI - IMO this applies particularly to endorsements of specific skills. However, I'd like to think that individually written recommendations are less prone to abuse. In my case at least I will only write recommendations for people that I know quite well and have actually worked with (not necessarily in the same organisation, but also in a customer / vendor relationship). The other point is that LI can sometimes serve as a conduit for contacting referees outside of the company's bailiwick.