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Aragorn2000
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Postby Aragorn2000 » Tue, 27 May 2014 5:33 pm

Confirmations are for background check. Banks do this for new joiners. They want to know if the particular person they are hiring did any misconducts in his/her previous company.

By denying confirmations, your company deprives the person their rightful means of living.

I'm sure your company isn't a sulky IT company, but I know investment banks and Google/Microsoft don't treat their leaving employees as your company does.

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Postby midlet2013 » Tue, 27 May 2014 5:51 pm

Ya, right. If a company is any good, its an employee's loss when leaving.

To me, it shows bad management if you feel bitter about someone leaving, particularly if you claim to be a bigshot successful company.

Aragorn2000 wrote:Confirmations are for background check. Banks do this for new joiners. They want to know if the particular person they are hiring did any misconducts in his/her previous company.

By denying confirmations, your company deprives the person their rightful means of living.

I'm sure your company isn't a sulky IT company, but I know investment banks and Google/Microsoft don't treat their leaving employees as your company does.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 27 May 2014 5:55 pm

Let's face it, Banks and IT aren't the real world. If they were in the real world they would get paid measly bucks like the rest of us peons. :P
Last edited by sundaymorningstaple on Tue, 27 May 2014 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PNGMK
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Postby PNGMK » Tue, 27 May 2014 5:55 pm

Aragorn2000 wrote:Confirmations are for background check. Banks do this for new joiners. They want to know if the particular person they are hiring did any misconducts in his/her previous company.

By denying confirmations, your company deprives the person their rightful means of living.

I'm sure your company isn't a sulky IT company, but I know investment banks and Google/Microsoft don't treat their leaving employees as your company does.


The worlds moved on from Indian HR practices... We're not a bank thank God.

You really don't understand. We don't confirm because we can't confirm without risk.

IF we get a call that says "Was Raja Gupta working at XX in 2009" and we say "yes" but it is some idiot using Raja's name or a different Raja then we are liable and EVERY lawyer loves suing the shit out of us. The real Raja would have his payslips and he can provide those to the new bank or whatever.

You're young and inexperienced. Let your first lawsuit teach you to cover your ass and you'll get it.

Oh and this is not stopping Raja Gupta from practicing his trade or profession and no court in Singapore would see it that way.

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Postby PNGMK » Tue, 27 May 2014 6:02 pm

midlet2013 wrote:Ya, right. If a company is any good, its an employee's loss when leaving.

To me, it shows bad management if you feel bitter about someone leaving, particularly if you claim to be a bigshot successful company.

Aragorn2000 wrote:Confirmations are for background check. Banks do this for new joiners. They want to know if the particular person they are hiring did any misconducts in his/her previous company.

By denying confirmations, your company deprives the person their rightful means of living.

I'm sure your company isn't a sulky IT company, but I know investment banks and Google/Microsoft don't treat their leaving employees as your company does.


It's not bitterness - it's risk management midget. When you're turnover and revenue is a multiple of the lower ranked 50 countries in the world EVERYONE is looking for a slip up and this example of just one of thousands and thousands of ways large companies manage risk.

Google will do it eventually and I'm surprised banks haven't started doing it.

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Postby Wd40 » Tue, 27 May 2014 6:48 pm

From what I know, when you join a new company, you need to provide contact details of people from your previous company/other people for character references. Some companies insist you need to provide your boss's contact.

I don't think companies directly contact the HR department of Banks and other large companies. Banks as it is give out very little information even when they have to. So they are not liable to confirm the employment of any of their previous employees.

As PNGMK said, you have payslips and experience letter. The background check companies job is to look at those documents and see if they are original or fake.

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Postby bro75 » Tue, 27 May 2014 7:31 pm

Wd40 wrote:From what I know, when you join a new company, you need to provide contact details of people from your previous company/other people for character references. Some companies insist you need to provide your boss's contact.

.


I have never experienced this. Maybe this is an industry specific practice? You do not want your boss to know that you are applying to other companies. You also do not want your colleagues to know sometimes as there could be a leak to management.

Yes, some employer ask for relevant character reference normally a former colleague or superior or school professor but rarely a current one.

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Postby Wd40 » Tue, 27 May 2014 8:29 pm

bro75 wrote:
Wd40 wrote:From what I know, when you join a new company, you need to provide contact details of people from your previous company/other people for character references. Some companies insist you need to provide your boss's contact.

.


I have never experienced this. Maybe this is an industry specific practice? You do not want your boss to know that you are applying to other companies. You also do not want your colleagues to know sometimes as there could be a leak to management.

Yes, some employer ask for relevant character reference normally a former colleague or superior or school professor but rarely a current one.


This is after accepting a new offer and resigning your old company. During the notice period is when the new employer/their agency do the background verification.

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Postby PNGMK » Tue, 27 May 2014 8:48 pm

Wd40 wrote:
bro75 wrote:
Wd40 wrote:From what I know, when you join a new company, you need to provide contact details of people from your previous company/other people for character references. Some companies insist you need to provide your boss's contact.

.


I have never experienced this. Maybe this is an industry specific practice? You do not want your boss to know that you are applying to other companies. You also do not want your colleagues to know sometimes as there could be a leak to management.

Yes, some employer ask for relevant character reference normally a former colleague or superior or school professor but rarely a current one.


This is after accepting a new offer and resigning your old company. During the notice period is when the new employer/their agency do the background verification.


I've never had this happen. Maybe they only do it with shady characters?

In my profession you are hired by people who know you by your work - wtf would they ring your old boss if they've prior knowledge of your ability?

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Postby Beeroclock » Tue, 27 May 2014 10:58 pm

Wd40 wrote:
bro75 wrote:
Wd40 wrote:From what I know, when you join a new company, you need to provide contact details of people from your previous company/other people for character references. Some companies insist you need to provide your boss's contact.

.


I have never experienced this. Maybe this is an industry specific practice? You do not want your boss to know that you are applying to other companies. You also do not want your colleagues to know sometimes as there could be a leak to management.

Yes, some employer ask for relevant character reference normally a former colleague or superior or school professor but rarely a current one.


This is after accepting a new offer and resigning your old company. During the notice period is when the new employer/their agency do the background verification.

Seems very strange and too late. What if background check turns up a problem, you have already resigned and accepted?

I thought referee check is last step before getting an offer and yes unlikely to be anyone from the current employer.

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Postby PNGMK » Wed, 28 May 2014 12:17 am

Beeroclock wrote:
Wd40 wrote:
bro75 wrote:
Wd40 wrote:From what I know, when you join a new company, you need to provide contact details of people from your previous company/other people for character references. Some companies insist you need to provide your boss's contact.

.


I have never experienced this. Maybe this is an industry specific practice? You do not want your boss to know that you are applying to other companies. You also do not want your colleagues to know sometimes as there could be a leak to management.

Yes, some employer ask for relevant character reference normally a former colleague or superior or school professor but rarely a current one.


This is after accepting a new offer and resigning your old company. During the notice period is when the new employer/their agency do the background verification.

Seems very strange and too late. What if background check turns up a problem, you have already resigned and accepted?

I thought referee check is last step before getting an offer and yes unlikely to be anyone from the current employer.


Because of the tight labour market in the Oil and Gas industry we have been authorized to hire first, fire later. i.e. if the candidate doesn't pass compliance (i.e. criminal, drug or the subcon favourite; forgery). Beause of this I suspect WD40 has a point but I won't concede it.

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Postby midlet2013 » Wed, 28 May 2014 11:15 am

I dont think u have a habit of conceding irrespective of who is right.

Do you tell people during hiring that if you leave within two years, we will not acknowledge their existence. Perhaps, specifying this in the contract would be ethical. Impossible Mission Force did that to Ethan Hunt many times.

PNGMK wrote:
Beeroclock wrote:
Wd40 wrote:
bro75 wrote:
Wd40 wrote:From what I know, when you join a new company, you need to provide contact details of people from your previous company/other people for character references. Some companies insist you need to provide your boss's contact.

.


I have never experienced this. Maybe this is an industry specific practice? You do not want your boss to know that you are applying to other companies. You also do not want your colleagues to know sometimes as there could be a leak to management.

Yes, some employer ask for relevant character reference normally a former colleague or superior or school professor but rarely a current one.


This is after accepting a new offer and resigning your old company. During the notice period is when the new employer/their agency do the background verification.

Seems very strange and too late. What if background check turns up a problem, you have already resigned and accepted?

I thought referee check is last step before getting an offer and yes unlikely to be anyone from the current employer.


Because of the tight labour market in the Oil and Gas industry we have been authorized to hire first, fire later. i.e. if the candidate doesn't pass compliance (i.e. criminal, drug or the subcon favourite; forgery). Beause of this I suspect WD40 has a point but I won't concede it.

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PNGMK
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Postby PNGMK » Wed, 28 May 2014 11:18 am

midlet2013 wrote:I dont think u have a habit of conceding irrespective of who is right.

Do you tell people during hiring that if you leave within two years, we will not acknowledge their existence. Perhaps, specifying this in the contract would be ethical. Impossible Mission Force did that to Ethan Hunt many times.

PNGMK wrote:
Beeroclock wrote:
Wd40 wrote:
bro75 wrote:
Wd40 wrote:From what I know, when you join a new company, you need to provide contact details of people from your previous company/other people for character references. Some companies insist you need to provide your boss's contact.

.


I have never experienced this. Maybe this is an industry specific practice? You do not want your boss to know that you are applying to other companies. You also do not want your colleagues to know sometimes as there could be a leak to management.

Yes, some employer ask for relevant character reference normally a former colleague or superior or school professor but rarely a current one.


This is after accepting a new offer and resigning your old company. During the notice period is when the new employer/their agency do the background verification.

Seems very strange and too late. What if background check turns up a problem, you have already resigned and accepted?

I thought referee check is last step before getting an offer and yes unlikely to be anyone from the current employer.


Because of the tight labour market in the Oil and Gas industry we have been authorized to hire first, fire later. i.e. if the candidate doesn't pass compliance (i.e. criminal, drug or the subcon favourite; forgery). Beause of this I suspect WD40 has a point but I won't concede it.


If they don't ask no. However I think you fail to understand that there is NO issue for you. If you had a job and it was legitimate, you posses proof of that. You don't need anyone to vouch for it. And you won't get the larger MNC's to vouch anyways. Move along youngster.

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Aragorn2000
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Postby Aragorn2000 » Thu, 29 May 2014 4:09 pm

PNGMK, is this non-confirmation policy applicable to all leaving employee or just early-leaving folks?

I have a problem if it's just for early leaving employees. It's discrimination and all about revenge. At least this term should be made clear before a candidate signs the employment contract.

If it's applicable to everyone, then this discussion should not be happening. It has nothing to do with job hoppers.

In either case, it's still unethical, IMO. The company still can cover its ass by many other ways, but by not confirming, it can affect a person's entire life.

Skilled migration (for example, to Canada) requires an explicit confirmation from previous employers. Payslips, employment contracts aren't enough.

In fact, a company can avoid legal complications by adding a simple disclaimer clause ("This confirmation is for information purpose only blah blah"). I'm no lawyer but there's definitely a way out for any company. Otherwise, no company would confirm the existence of its ex-employees.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 29 May 2014 5:07 pm

Frankly, I can almost see PNGMK's point. The company is doing them a favour. If they are job hoppers (less than two years on the job - assuming that they are not Project types of workers, but on permanent hire) then if they called me, and the HR point of his old company, what can I say. If I cannot say anything positive then refusing to give any kind of character reference, I am absolved from either a) pumping him up, knowing he's a job hopper; or b) giving him a bad character reference - which would be deserved. Therefore, without the character reference the new potential employer would have to use the information on the CV and that he could glean out of the employee. If the employee doesn't have a termination letter, he's going to have to be creative trying to justify why he's left the old employer. That way he can stab himself in the back without the former employer, he's stabbed in the back, doing it.


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