Singapore Expats Forum

Torrents

Discuss about computers & Internet. Including mobile phones, home appliances & other gadgets. Read about Windows security risks or virus updates.
User avatar
zzm9980
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6841
Joined: Wed, 06 Jul 2011
Location: Once more unto the breach

Postby zzm9980 » Sat, 12 Jul 2014 12:49 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:http://www.techspot.com/news/55443-these-are-the-worst-countries-when-it-comes-to-throttling-bittorrent-traffic.html

Of all the countries, Singapore is 3rd for th
e highest percentage of throttling.


This is what I've always said to anyone asking "Which fiber should I go with: Singtel, M1, Starhub?" NONE! Not only do they throttle protocols like Torrents, they transparently proxy every single HTTP/HTTPS request going to the Internet.

User avatar
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9314
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009
Location: Singapore

Postby x9200 » Sat, 12 Jul 2014 8:08 am

Regardless other reasons, surely they proxy it to follow the MDA guidelines or this is only the starhub copper lines?

User avatar
zzm9980
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6841
Joined: Wed, 06 Jul 2011
Location: Once more unto the breach

Postby zzm9980 » Sat, 12 Jul 2014 12:34 pm

x9200 wrote:Regardless other reasons, surely they proxy it to follow the MDA guidelines or this is only the starhub copper lines?


They could filter for MDA guidelines many ways without proxying. That's what firewalls do. The proxies shove all of the subscribers into the same small IP blocks making it hard to differentiate people. You're a mod who can see IPs, you probably see this.

Also, it's only the big 3 ISPs. Not the smaller independent fiber guys.

User avatar
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9314
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009
Location: Singapore

Postby x9200 » Sat, 12 Jul 2014 1:15 pm

Do you think there would be any practical difference? It comes to a filtering software, whether this is implemented within routers or a number of dedicated servers, there should be a little impact. If there is a match it redirects to a web server anyway.
The proxy servers may even have advantage of caching actually speeding up some connections with sufficient critical mass of users.

Grumpy77
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 151
Joined: Thu, 30 Jul 2009

Postby Grumpy77 » Sat, 12 Jul 2014 9:32 pm

It isn't volume but content that will get you caught. Don't download music or M$soft (or other major SW brands) which is where they seem to be most diligent in their policing efforts.

I watch well over 200 sporting events per year on torrent and most of my TV/movies is done on laptop - and have never had a problem. Gigs and Gigs and Gigs (then it begins to start with a T) since the e-Donkey days, the stats on my uTorrent client are mindboggling...

Be careful to only use small private trackers and only go to Piratebay / Kickass as a rare last resorts to keep off the radar...

On the small sites, I also regularly donate to buy upload credit (costs about EUR50/year across all my trackers which means I don't have share much (or any at all). Helping the private sites with server costs gives the right to be a complete leech which again will keep you off the authorities radar.

With care and common sense you won't have problems

User avatar
zzm9980
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6841
Joined: Wed, 06 Jul 2011
Location: Once more unto the breach

Postby zzm9980 » Sat, 12 Jul 2014 11:19 pm

x9200 wrote:Do you think there would be any practical difference? It comes to a filtering software, whether this is implemented within routers or a number of dedicated servers, there should be a little impact. If there is a match it redirects to a web server anyway.
The proxy servers may even have advantage of caching actually speeding up some connections with sufficient critical mass of users.


Proxies will be more efficient for the ISPs. It will lower their 'overseas bandwidth' bills. MDA filters so few things ("symbolic 100" or something) that there are no advantages in using it for filtering. Modern next-gen firewalls do everything they offer and more anyway.

Other advantages would be to protect end users by firewalling off their connections and only giving a private IP, but they don't do that. You still have your real IP for all non-HTTP/HTTPS connections. This actually breaks some applications (older versions of Blizzard's Updater applications for one) where you authenticate to an HTTP/HTTPS service (Web page, etc) and are supposed to use that authentication for a different application. Because it's a different IP some systems (rightfully) freak out and deny you access.

User avatar
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9314
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009
Location: Singapore

Postby x9200 » Sun, 13 Jul 2014 8:26 am

So the main proxy devil is because of the single IP? But judging from this forum I don't really see it that often (if at all). If any aggregation happens it looks like on some specific ISP (none of the big 3 players) level. I am not a system engineer but why the proxy server would need to make it into single IP?

User avatar
zzm9980
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6841
Joined: Wed, 06 Jul 2011
Location: Once more unto the breach

Postby zzm9980 » Sun, 13 Jul 2014 1:05 pm

x9200 wrote:So the main proxy devil is because of the single IP? But judging from this forum I don't really see it that often (if at all). If any aggregation happens it looks like on some specific ISP (none of the big 3 players) level. I am not a system engineer but why the proxy server would need to make it into single IP?


Singtel MIO shoved all of its users into a single /23, which is ~500 IPs. This causes Singapore to dis-proportionally get banned from various websites. For example, for a long time all of Singapore was blocked from editing wikipedia.

The main devil with a proxy is that it is making the connection for you, and possibly (likely) modifying it. Normally your web browser connects to a site and asks for a resource. With a proxy, you connect to the proxy and it requires on your behalf (normal). The ISPs use transparent proxies (otherwise the end user would need to configure something) which take your request and then retrieve it on your behalf. IF the proxy has (or believes it has) the newest version of the resource you're requesting, it doesn't request it and just gives it to you. This isn't always perfect. The site which originally hosted the resource may not properly tell the proxy when that resource has expired (and to get the new one) or the proxy may just ignore the headers the server set to tell you that.

User avatar
zzm9980
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6841
Joined: Wed, 06 Jul 2011
Location: Once more unto the breach

Postby zzm9980 » Sun, 13 Jul 2014 1:06 pm

Grumpy77 wrote:It isn't volume but content that will get you caught. Don't download music or M$soft (or other major SW brands) which is where they seem to be most diligent in their policing efforts.

I watch well over 200 sporting events per year on torrent and most of my TV/movies is done on laptop - and have never had a problem. Gigs and Gigs and Gigs (then it begins to start with a T) since the e-Donkey days, the stats on my uTorrent client are mindboggling...

Be careful to only use small private trackers and only go to Piratebay / Kickass as a rare last resorts to keep off the radar...

On the small sites, I also regularly donate to buy upload credit (costs about EUR50/year across all my trackers which means I don't have share much (or any at all). Helping the private sites with server costs gives the right to be a complete leech which again will keep you off the authorities radar.

With care and common sense you won't have problems


I don't condone illegal activity, but if I did I'd tell everyone that to do what Grumpy is saying: Find a friend with an invite to a private track, donate a few bucks, and enjoy. Turn off peer discovery, force encryption, and enjoy.

User avatar
LoneRanger
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun, 02 Feb 2014
Location: Singapore

Postby LoneRanger » Mon, 14 Jul 2014 9:39 am

zzm9980 wrote:
x9200 wrote:So the main proxy devil is because of the single IP? But judging from this forum I don't really see it that often (if at all). If any aggregation happens it looks like on some specific ISP (none of the big 3 players) level. I am not a system engineer but why the proxy server would need to make it into single IP?


Singtel MIO shoved all of its users into a single /23, which is ~500 IPs. This causes Singapore to dis-proportionally get banned from various websites. For example, for a long time all of Singapore was blocked from editing wikipedia.

The main devil with a proxy is that it is making the connection for you, and possibly (likely) modifying it. Normally your web browser connects to a site and asks for a resource. With a proxy, you connect to the proxy and it requires on your behalf (normal). The ISPs use transparent proxies (otherwise the end user would need to configure something) which take your request and then retrieve it on your behalf. IF the proxy has (or believes it has) the newest version of the resource you're requesting, it doesn't request it and just gives it to you. This isn't always perfect. The site which originally hosted the resource may not properly tell the proxy when that resource has expired (and to get the new one) or the proxy may just ignore the headers the server set to tell you that.


NOW I'm lost...!!

From what I understand from Grumpy77, it would be 'reasonably safe' to find torrents from private sites and get TV shows and older movies... And not seed too much.

User avatar
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9314
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009
Location: Singapore

Postby x9200 » Mon, 14 Jul 2014 10:55 am

zzm9980 wrote:
x9200 wrote:So the main proxy devil is because of the single IP? But judging from this forum I don't really see it that often (if at all). If any aggregation happens it looks like on some specific ISP (none of the big 3 players) level. I am not a system engineer but why the proxy server would need to make it into single IP?


Singtel MIO shoved all of its users into a single /23, which is ~500 IPs. This causes Singapore to dis-proportionally get banned from various websites. For example, for a long time all of Singapore was blocked from editing wikipedia.

The main devil with a proxy is that it is making the connection for you, and possibly (likely) modifying it. Normally your web browser connects to a site and asks for a resource. With a proxy, you connect to the proxy and it requires on your behalf (normal). The ISPs use transparent proxies (otherwise the end user would need to configure something) which take your request and then retrieve it on your behalf. IF the proxy has (or believes it has) the newest version of the resource you're requesting, it doesn't request it and just gives it to you. This isn't always perfect. The site which originally hosted the resource may not properly tell the proxy when that resource has expired (and to get the new one) or the proxy may just ignore the headers the server set to tell you that.


Not sure about Singtel as I use them only for the mobile broadband but with the Starhub regular cable I have not noticed any problems of this sort for last 12 years or so. More-over, I ran myself a transparent proxy at home (more for learning and the convenience of single port tunneling than some real need) and this was also working fine.

hensonmel
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue, 19 Aug 2014

Postby hensonmel » Wed, 20 Aug 2014 8:58 pm

is it illegal here in singapore to use torrents for downloading movies and tv series?

User avatar
aster
Manager
Manager
Posts: 1593
Joined: Fri, 15 Jan 2010

Postby aster » Wed, 20 Aug 2014 11:00 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:http://www.techspot.com/news/55443-these-are-the-worst-countries-when-it-comes-to-throttling-bittorrent-traffic.html

Of all the countries, Singapore is 3rd for th
e highest percentage of throttling.


In Singapore almost everything seems to be throttled, whereas some of these countries at the top of the list will mainly throttle torrents whilst leaving most users alone with their other stuff.

User avatar
nakatago
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8333
Joined: Tue, 01 Sep 2009
Location: Sister Margaret’s School for Wayward Children
Contact:

Postby nakatago » Thu, 21 Aug 2014 7:00 am

hensonmel wrote:is it illegal here in singapore to use torrents for downloading movies and tv series?


Yes, and not just Singapore but most countries with copyright laws. Not so much if the distributor of the movie/TV series actually made their product available via torrent (which practically never happens).

Akimbo
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 855
Joined: Wed, 02 May 2012
Location: Serangoon

Postby Akimbo » Mon, 13 Oct 2014 9:30 am

Hey guys, a "friend" ;) of mine has had this problem at least maybe twice or thrice a year, when he turns on a -U torrent- program and his wireless connection practically disabled on itself, and then he has to reset by taking out the wireless USB stick just to be able to browse the net, provided he closes the torrent program.

The thing is, this doesn't happen all the time. Most days he can download through torrent in the background and surf as per normal. Anybody knows what's actually wrong?
My thread...The Weekenders If you need my e-mail address, it's in the first post of the thread.


Return to “Computer, Internet, Phone & Electronics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests