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EP Application rejected

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ashivara
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EP Application rejected

Postby ashivara » Wed, 14 May 2014 4:38 pm

I have been an employee in SG for the past 3 years as a Software QA Lead.
I quit my job in Jan and returned back to India. I managed to get another job with the role of CRM Consultant.
However my EP application has been rejected with the following reason

"Your candidate does not have the relevant work experience for the position applied for. Thus we are unable to approve the application. You are advised not to appeal if there is no change to the candidate's work experience. "

Is this due to change in the job profile (which the employer mentions in the Occupation section of the Application form ?)
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 14 May 2014 4:46 pm

No, it because of a change of criteria for the granting of the EP. This is why we don't recommend people quitting their jobs here in order to find another job. They should find a job and wait until they have an In principle Approval before submitting their notice to their current employer. Of course, even then there is no guarantee as you current employer may well instruct HR to peruse all foreign EP/S pass holders online to see if any have applications that are pending/approved. That way, they know who to let go if they find themselves in a bind labour wise. It's a gamble you take. In this case, I'm afraid you lost. Not too much you can do about it.

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Postby ashivara » Wed, 14 May 2014 5:35 pm

Thanx for the reply.
My employer wants to call the MOM. Do you think that will make any difference ? Also isn't the self assessment tool a good indication of whether we stand a good chance for EP/S Pass?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 14 May 2014 6:10 pm

The problem is not with the employer. It is with your current level of experience and the new criteria required by MOM.

The self assessment tool is ONLY to see if you are eligible to file for the EP/S pass. However, it is NOT a guarantee that you will be granted one. That is dependent on a lot of other factors, including age and experience in addition to criteria levels required for that position and the salary being offered for the position. Additionally, if it's a position that the MOM feels can easily be filled by a local, that will knock it to the floor as well. The online tools are on to see if you have the academic criteria. If you don't, then don't bother trying. But if you do, then a lot more comes into play.

sms

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Postby ashivara » Wed, 14 May 2014 8:41 pm

I take all your points..
However when I read the reason they have specifically asked the employer not to appeal if there is no change in the candidate's work experience.
Why would they say that ? Or is it a set of standard reasons that they have?
Also in the MOM website, they have mentioned that they consider each and every application carefully before approving or rejecting.
My employer just mentioned that he has created a case with MOM. any idea how long they take to get back ?

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Postby Wd40 » Wed, 14 May 2014 8:51 pm

Wow! So now they are trying to find all sorts of new reasons to reject EPs. I think my decision not to hang on here and go back to India is perfect.

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Postby AngMoG » Thu, 15 May 2014 9:48 am

I think this job is gone for you. The MoM already "knows" you do not have the experience, and changing anything in the position or your experience is not likely to get better results. To me, it also sounds like a position easily filled by a local, at least in title, which may work against you.

If they offer you a different job (with different title and scope) that is more in line with you experience, you may have a chance. Otherwise, you can try getting a job that is more in line with your experience (Software QA).

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Re: EP Application rejected

Postby JR8 » Thu, 15 May 2014 10:02 am

ashivara wrote:"Your candidate does not have the relevant work experience for the position applied for. Thus we are unable to approve the application. You are advised not to appeal if there is no change to the candidate's work experience. "


I found this interesting, does it mean MoM now hold themselves up as better able to judge a candidates ability for a job, than the employer who has just offered them a position and will be paying their salary?

In my experience, employees 'going places' were rotated across many departments/functions, and certainly ones they were not directly qualified for. So in banking terms, say a dry-as-a-bone legal accountant, could find himself as a settlements manager in Operations (induction by fire :)). But it was all about broadening out an employees experience and hence insight.

I appreciate that in SG policy requires candidates are employed for a specific role, rather than much longer term 'broadening out' and 'management rotation', but who ultimately is the best judge of the right candidate for the job?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 15 May 2014 11:01 am

Singapore is. It's their ballpark, their ball, their country. They can decide if the candidate is the right flavour for the country or not. If not, then the company can find a local if they (MOM) in their research, finds that there are sufficient locals with the necessary wherewithal to do the job. It's their prerogative.

Employers and HR departments in Singapore are famous for hiring foreign staff because HR is headed by a foreigner or they feel they can get be cheaper with a foreigner. This is the crux of the problem that currently has the population up in arms and all xenophobic now.

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Postby JR8 » Thu, 15 May 2014 11:28 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Singapore is. It's their ballpark, their ball, their country. They can decide if the candidate is the right flavour for the country or not. If not, then the company can find a local if they (MOM) in their research, finds that there are sufficient locals with the necessary wherewithal to do the job. It's their prerogative.

Employers and HR departments in Singapore are famous for hiring foreign staff because HR is headed by a foreigner or they feel they can get be cheaper with a foreigner. This is the crux of the problem that currently has the population up in arms and all xenophobic now.


I think we've been here before :? But I still wonder why if company #A has such a choice of local candidates they'd opt to hire an internal transfer on a bells-and-whistles triple bottom-line package. Fine, sure, of course 'it's their ballpark etc', but there comes a point where departments simply move lock stock and barrel to HK (I saw this myself... in fact I nearly go sent there). 'Oh dear no jobs at all for locals then. No training up juniors by more globally experienced seniors. A good net result?

So you're saying that SG is not a place for an employer to develop international staff. They have to be fully pre-qualified, come in for say max three years, doing the same job as they do back home, do the job, and then leave?

No thanks, why would anyone building a career opt to stagnate in a relative backwater?

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Postby ashivara » Thu, 15 May 2014 11:34 am

My new job title is a CRM Consultant.
I think my employer has chosen the IT Analyst/Consultant option for the Occupation section in the EP Application form which is not the same as what was present in earlier experience( Software Quality Analyst).

Also on the ease of finding a local candidate for this position..
I am into Cloud technology ( Salesforce). As I see there are many positions which are open for quite sometime in various job sites. Some not filled for as long as 3 months. So I don't agree that there are many people locally.
I guess MOM should create another occupation section for Cloud Technologies.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 15 May 2014 11:50 am

If you are seeing these positions on the job boards, it's likely that they don't even exist. Most recruiters keep bogus positions posted just the keep replenishing their databases as the average CV only has a lifespan of around 3 months. (from an ex-headhunter).

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Postby ashivara » Thu, 15 May 2014 11:50 am

It also means that MOM does not agree with the company's decision to hire me? What can be the reason for MOM to distrust a company's decision.
I am joining a relative start up. Not sure if MOM would interfere in an established company's decision.

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Postby Addadude » Thu, 15 May 2014 11:59 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Employers and HR departments in Singapore are famous for hiring foreign staff because HR is headed by a foreigner or they feel they can get be cheaper with a foreigner. This is the crux of the problem that currently has the population up in arms and all xenophobic now.


This. As I've said before, many MNCs and/or HR depts have been taking the p!ss with this for too long. It's become so blatant that I really cannot find it in my heart to blame Singaporeans for being fed up with this.

With a general election virtually around the corner, the gahment finds itself in a situation where it has to step in. MNCs have only themselves to blame.
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Postby Addadude » Thu, 15 May 2014 12:09 pm

ashivara wrote:It also means that MOM does not agree with the company's decision to hire me? What can be the reason for MOM to distrust a company's decision.
I am joining a relative start up. Not sure if MOM would interfere in an established company's decision.


Ashivara, that's exactly what it means. For whatever reason - and it probably has everything to do with what SMS has said - MOM has decided that the position you are being hired for does not require an EP holder to fill it - or perhaps, unfortunately, an EP holder with your level of qualifications. And 'interfering with an established company's hiring decision' is exactly what MOM is there for.

Your prospective employer can appeal as often as they want, but it sounds like MOM's mind is made up and they risk antagonising them. If I were you, I would ask them to stop appealing and perhaps change the role to match your qualifications.
"Both politicians and nappies need to be changed regularly, and for the same reasons."


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