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katlheenlim
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Postby katlheenlim » Thu, 08 May 2014 7:50 pm

Has any ever done nlp on this forum? what were your experiences with it? does it really work (as a quick fix maybe)? is it that amazing? I am really interested in it and would like to know more...

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Postby Beeroclock » Fri, 09 May 2014 11:17 am

Yes I have. It's useful for sure. Would I go so far as amazing, perhaps? Certainly it has the potential to quickly unlock people from serious problems/disorders/addictions that otherwise would require years on the coach with a traditional psychologist and/or extensive use of medication. When you see something like that occur, yes it really does feel amazing. Sadly in recent years NLP has been increasingly misrepresented and abused in areas such as sales/multi-level-marketing/get rich quick/ dating/ etc. One of the founders (Bandler) went off the rails for a period, and that didn't help the image of NLP either, making it easier for the traditional academics to dismiss it. You need to be very careful finding credible NLP sources/teachers.

If you're seriously interested, I would recommend going back to the original roots. Find a copy of the early books by Bandler and Grinder. The origin of NLP is in the worlds of therapy and hypnosis (although it has morphed into self-help and self-improvement), so start with that. In addition to these original texts, the best general book on NLP I would recommend is "NLP: The New Technology of Achievement"

For more current day examples/experts, I like Paul McKenna. You can check out his youtube I Can Change Your Life, some of those episodes are really inspiring. He is like a British version of Tony Robbins (without the firewalking gimmicks). Or for a more popularized/Hollywood version watch The Mentalist, a lot of what Patrick Jane does is NLP too.

Hope this gives you a few useful leads to pursue further.... good luck

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Thanks!

Postby katlheenlim » Mon, 12 May 2014 9:36 am

@Beeroclock thanks for the references. Will be checking this book. It's a great way to start learning about NLP.

I hope i could make a progress. Though I might enroll for a training or course soon, if things really get interesting. Thanks again. :D

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Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 13 May 2014 10:16 am

Be aware that this "technique" has come under intense criticism as pseudoscience at best, and plain ole snake oil, at worst.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-ling ... rogramming

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Postby Beeroclock » Tue, 13 May 2014 12:12 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:Be aware that this "technique" has come under intense criticism as pseudoscience at best, and plain ole snake oil, at worst.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-ling ... rogramming

as I alluded in my earlier post it does not have a great rep, for several reasons. So yes do your homework and chose carefully before you sign up to any training. That's also why I recommend going back to the original source books.

I can say personally I find NLP interesting and useful, but not the cure to world hunger. Many of these techniques are widely used by politicians, leaders, advertisers etc etc, so even if you don't want to practice it, I don't think it will hurt to be aware of this.

Regarding academic criticism that a lot of the NLP hypotheses are unproven, and then many of these same academics fall back to Freudian theories of psychology over a century old and based on factors such as how often you dreamt about your mother..... :roll: IMO much of psychology still falls into this grey area of "pseudoscience"

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Postby Brah » Tue, 20 May 2014 6:54 am

Having read the Bandler book in earnest, listened to the audio book, and read others, I remain interested but unconvinced. NLP is not something you can learn on your own, it needs to be done to be learned and become practice-able.

I attended one of the local providers' free 3-hour presentation / sales pitch. I felt if they were really good at NLP I would have signed up for the $4000 / multi-week, time-intensive course. I didn't.

What I saw at the place and in the video was a collection of optimistic, giggly hopefuls, and in a setting too silly for me to take serious. It made me wonder if I were to attend such a course in a different country that it might be more effective (for me).

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Postby Beeroclock » Tue, 20 May 2014 8:29 am

Brah wrote:Having read the Bandler book in earnest, listened to the audio book, and read others, I remain interested but unconvinced. NLP is not something you can learn on your own, it needs to be done to be learned and become practice-able.

I attended one of the local providers' free 3-hour presentation / sales pitch. I felt if they were really good at NLP I would have signed up for the $4000 / multi-week, time-intensive course. I didn't.

What I saw at the place and in the video was a collection of optimistic, giggly hopefuls, and in a setting too silly for me to take serious. It made me wonder if I were to attend such a course in a different country that it might be more effective (for me).
was that one of the original books from the 70's eg Structure of Magic etc, or you mean the recent one he wrote?

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Postby Brah » Wed, 21 May 2014 7:12 am

Beeroclock wrote:
Brah wrote:Having read the Bandler book in earnest, listened to the audio book, and read others, I remain interested but unconvinced. NLP is not something you can learn on your own, it needs to be done to be learned and become practice-able.

I attended one of the local providers' free 3-hour presentation / sales pitch. I felt if they were really good at NLP I would have signed up for the $4000 / multi-week, time-intensive course. I didn't.

What I saw at the place and in the video was a collection of optimistic, giggly hopefuls, and in a setting too silly for me to take serious. It made me wonder if I were to attend such a course in a different country that it might be more effective (for me).
was that one of the original books from the 70's eg Structure of Magic etc, or you mean the recent one he wrote?

The original "textbook" that started it all, and a more recent one, I think it was "Get the Life You Want: The Secrets to Quick and Lasting Life Change with Neuro-Linguistic Programming", which I bought because it was in audio format. But I've read other NLP books not by Bandler.

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Postby Strong Eagle » Wed, 21 May 2014 7:47 am

No such thing as "quick and lasting" life change. You might have a transformational weekend or experience, and it is but the beginning of a journey.

Life is a path, not a goal.

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Postby Beeroclock » Wed, 21 May 2014 8:33 am

Strong Eagle wrote:No such thing as "quick and lasting" life change. You might have a transformational weekend or experience, and it is but the beginning of a journey.

Life is a path, not a goal.

How can you be so sure though Strong Eagle? I know it's the usual wisdom that important things take time, effort and perhaps a measure of pain to achieve, but then again I have also seen people reach a snapping point or pivotal moment where it all becomes clear and they say "never again" or "now I know what to do". In that instant they decide to lose weight or quit smoking, or whatever it is, and they do stick to it. The mind is an amazing thing and there are a lot of possibilities actually, if you are open to consider them.

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Postby JR8 » Wed, 21 May 2014 9:52 am

Beeroclock wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:No such thing as "quick and lasting" life change. You might have a transformational weekend or experience, and it is but the beginning of a journey.

Life is a path, not a goal.

How can you be so sure though Strong Eagle? I know it's the usual wisdom that important things take time, effort and perhaps a measure of pain to achieve, but then again I have also seen people reach a snapping point or pivotal moment where it all becomes clear and they say "never again" or "now I know what to do". In that instant they decide to lose weight or quit smoking, or whatever it is, and they do stick to it. The mind is an amazing thing and there are a lot of possibilities actually, if you are open to consider them.


I can see where you're both coming from.
You can decide to quit smoking in an instant, or reach a cast-iron resolution to leave an abusive relationship, and it's done. But the square isn't circled, the 'journey' isn't complete until you can understand how you got in that behaviour and position in the first place.

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Postby Beeroclock » Wed, 21 May 2014 10:30 am

JR8 wrote:
Beeroclock wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:No such thing as "quick and lasting" life change. You might have a transformational weekend or experience, and it is but the beginning of a journey.

Life is a path, not a goal.

How can you be so sure though Strong Eagle? I know it's the usual wisdom that important things take time, effort and perhaps a measure of pain to achieve, but then again I have also seen people reach a snapping point or pivotal moment where it all becomes clear and they say "never again" or "now I know what to do". In that instant they decide to lose weight or quit smoking, or whatever it is, and they do stick to it. The mind is an amazing thing and there are a lot of possibilities actually, if you are open to consider them.


I can see where you're both coming from.
You can decide to quit smoking in an instant, or reach a cast-iron resolution to leave an abusive relationship, and it's done. But the square isn't circled, the 'journey' isn't complete until you can understand how you got in that behaviour and position in the first place.

Fair enough too, but even this understanding of complex issues can actually happen more quickly than we typically assume. The understanding might even already be there, buried somewhere in the subconscious mind, it just needs to rise to the surface.

I do agree the final part - life is a path/journey.

But IMHO, don't think it's correct to say "no such thing as quick and lasting change". An example often used in NLP of this "single shot learning" is when a young kid puts his hand on the hot stove. In this instant he will learn a lesson for life. Another recent example I was reading one of the Rolf Harris witnesses describe that he had pulled her violently towards him and kissed her. Even to this day, 30-40 years later, she still gets shocked and frightened when her husband suddenly pulls her in for a hug/kiss. Of course there are positive examples you can think of too. Often these are event driven - things that happen to us - but there is no reason why the same mental process can't be self-driven - i.e. a change/decision you want to make for yourself... Provided of course that you are at least open to the possibility of quick and lasting change.

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Postby Brah » Wed, 21 May 2014 7:18 pm

NLP practitioners claim they can cure (for lack of a better word) people with phobias (like spiders, heights, etc.) or habits (like smoking) almost instantly and where other attempts have failed.

In fact this instantaneous capability is part of what makes the P in NLP.

One part of me believes this is possible, though probably depending on the skill of the practitioner and how influence-able the subject is;

the other part of me has yet to actually see this, or to personally reap any significant benefits from NLP.

I remain open to this working.

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Postby Strong Eagle » Wed, 21 May 2014 9:32 pm

Beeroclock wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:No such thing as "quick and lasting" life change. You might have a transformational weekend or experience, and it is but the beginning of a journey.

Life is a path, not a goal.

How can you be so sure though Strong Eagle? I know it's the usual wisdom that important things take time, effort and perhaps a measure of pain to achieve, but then again I have also seen people reach a snapping point or pivotal moment where it all becomes clear and they say "never again" or "now I know what to do". In that instant they decide to lose weight or quit smoking, or whatever it is, and they do stick to it. The mind is an amazing thing and there are a lot of possibilities actually, if you are open to consider them.


I probably should be more clear. I agree with you that there can be an event, often a crisis, that causes a behavior change, and indeed, some would argue that only a serious crisis will actually cause someone to change. And, my Warrior weekend with the Mankind Project was transformational for me in that it woke me up and set me on a new path.

And that's my point. Once the event has occurred, what's next? Life is next, and I've seen people who started down, and continue down a new path, and that takes work and commitment... one does not just get "stuck" in a new way of being. Life is a process of constant growth.

I've also seen people, after being rudely awakened, nevertheless fall back into old behaviors unwilling to do the work necessary to move forward.

And this is why I would question NLP. The essence is you do this once (or for however many weeks) and the job is done. You now have the "bag of tricks" at your disposal. Cognitive behavioral therapy has a lot more research behind it, and I'd put more stock in it than NLP.

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Postby Brah » Wed, 21 May 2014 9:56 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:And this is why I would question NLP. The essence is you do this once (or for however many weeks) and the job is done. You now have the "bag of tricks" at your disposal. Cognitive behavioral therapy has a lot more research behind it, and I'd put more stock in it than NLP.


Not sure how much you've read into NLP, I understand it to be a kind of Cognitive behavioral therapy, and it's is something to practice rather than a once time thing.

That said, there are different things under the umbrella of NLP - BoC, you seem to be a proponent and well-versed on this, can you add to this?


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