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PR parents - my wife is giving birth to a son

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PR parents - my wife is giving birth to a son

Postby wwww » Tue, 06 May 2014 12:37 pm

We are both PR and my wife will give birth to our son in September. :)

I have done some research and it seems that our child will not be PR from birth but we will have to apply for him seperately. Is this correct? I believe this should nothing be more than a formality...

Due to obvious reasons (Singapore army needing new "cannon fodder"), I am also weighting my options as to whether to apply or not. We are planning to stay here for good, but it would be nice if our son had the option to decide by himself whether he wants to stay and serve NS or leave Singapore. What would be the disadvantages if we did not apply for him until he is older?

Thank you for your insights. :)

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 06 May 2014 12:50 pm

The biggest insight I can give you is do NOT burn his bridges for him, thinking you are doing him a favour. Additionally, while not a guarantee, there would be nothing stopping the government from, for some unknown reason, not renewing your re-entry permits at some point in the future if they figure out that you are deliberately trying to screw the government here. Additionally, you will find that, while it is possible, once he reaches the age of 21, he's screwed as he'll not be able to stay in Singapore unless he qualifies for an EP in his own right. Assuming he's just finished tertiary schooling around that age, he's not going to be able to qualify for an EP without experience AND he will NOT be given an LTVP so you will effectively banish him from every working or residing in Singapore even if he has a change of heart.

Let him do NS here and that way, no bridges are burned and he creates a network in the military here that will last him a lifetime and if he wants to then leave Singapore, the door will always be open to return, if he qualifies. I cannot stress the importance of this enough. Stop and think about how he's going to love you if you make his decisions for him and then later in life in falls in love with a local girl but because of your ill-thought out plans, he's going to have to leave the country and she might not be able to. How? If you are planning to stay here, I would suggest that you give this a lot of thought and read a lot of the threads in the Strictly Speaking subforum of those who thought as you did and screwed up their sons lives, either from scheming, or lack of planning, or lack of foresight.

Yes, my son did his national service and he's a better man because of it.

Not applying for it until he is older? He might not get it. Then he will have to be on an LTVP (if they give him one - again, not a guarantee) until such time as he starts schooling and then, if he's lucky, he can stay on a student's visa until he finishes school, then he will be given a 30 day social visit pass and after that he will have to leave the country. As we don't know how far they are willing to go to prove a point, we do know that they have very long memories. Do a search on the Internet on "The Piano Man" (he was a citizen who immigrated to the UK many, many years ago and then came back to Singapore when he was in his 40's a couple of years ago.).

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Postby wwww » Tue, 06 May 2014 12:59 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:The biggest insight I can give you is do NOT burn his bridges for him, thinking you are doing him a favour. Additionally, while not a guarantee, there would be nothing stopping the government from, for some unknown reason, not renewing your re-entry permits at some point in the future if they figure out that you are deliberately trying to screw the government here. Additionally, you will find that, while it is possible, once he reaches the age of 21, he's screwed as he'll not be able to stay in Singapore unless he qualifies for an EP in his own right. Assuming he's just finished tertiary schooling around that age, he's not going to be able to qualify for an EP without experience AND he will NOT be given an LTVP so you will effectively banish him from every working or residing in Singapore even if he has a change of heart.

Let him do NS here and that way, no bridges are burned and he creates a network in the military here that will last him a lifetime and if he wants to then leave Singapore, the door will always be open to return, if he qualifies. I cannot stress the importance of this enough. Stop and think about how he's going to love you if you make his decisions for him and then later in life in falls in love with a local girl but because of your ill-thought out plans, he's going to have to leave the country and she might not be able to. How? If you are planning to stay here, I would suggest that you give this a lot of thought and read a lot of the threads in the Strictly Speaking subforum of those who thought as you did and screwed up their sons lives, either from scheming, or lack of planning, or lack of foresight.

Yes, my son did his national service and he's a better man because of it.

Not applying for it until he is older? He might not get it. Then he will have to be on an LTVP (if they give him one - again, not a guarantee) until such time as he starts schooling and then, if he's lucky, he can stay on a student's visa until he finishes school, then he will be given a 30 day social visit pass and after that he will have to leave the country. As we don't know how far they are willing to go to prove a point, we do know that they have very long memories. Do a search on the Internet on "The Piano Man" (he was a citizen who immigrated to the UK many, many years ago and then came back to Singapore when he was in his 40's a couple of years ago.).


Cool, thanks for confirming this. Its always good to get a second opinion on such crucial topics. :)

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Postby paulsalem » Tue, 06 May 2014 1:29 pm

SMS - Is it possible to delay the PR application until he is in his mid teens? This way he can make the decision himself.

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Postby Beeroclock » Tue, 06 May 2014 2:26 pm

Yeah your son will not be PR from birth. With the birth cert, you will get a warm welcoming letter from ICA giving you 42 days to "regularize" his immigration status or else face a fine and imprisonment :shock: Actually you can get extensions if you apply 3 days before the deadline too, so it's not quite that bad .....

I would suggest applying LTVP initially for the first year, and then PR in due course. Maybe the PR is a formality as you said, but it's still likely to take a while to process, so the LTVP can cover this period and allow your son to move in and out of Singapore if needed. However if you are really confident he can stay in Singapore for the 4-6 months or however long it takes to get the PR approved, then you can go ahead and apply straight for PR and not bother with LTVP.

I'm in a similar situation to you and for now am keeping both my young kids on LTVP's. You get one year validity and it's a hassle to go ICA twice per year for the formalities (last time took me 3 hours waiting). But as per SMS the key issue is really for your son and the NS obligation. We also plan to stay here long-term, hence PR, but things can change and it's very difficult to predict the future. So for me at this stage, I would rather not potentially mark my son with a PR and subsequent cancellation. The downside obviously is as per SMS, it might affect your son and all your family's ability to stay in Singapore on PR/LTVP's, subject to how the Govt perceives it. For the moment I would rather take this risk, but you will have to decide for yourself.

Once again my advice would be LTVP for the first year, give yourself a bit of time to think and apply for PR when your son is 6-8 months old, so hopefully you get it before the LTVP expires.

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Postby bro75 » Tue, 06 May 2014 2:53 pm

PR approval is not a mere formality for children of some PRs. PR rejection rates of children are high for certain nationalities (based on my experience and other anecdotal evidence). You can still apply and see for yourself.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 06 May 2014 3:17 pm

bro75 wrote:PR approval is not a mere formality for children of some PRs. PR rejection rates of children are high for certain nationalities (based on my experience and other anecdotal evidence). You can still apply and see for yourself.


I was skirting THAT issue as the OP had not volunteered their nationality. :-/

That is also a very distinct possibility and is a way to almost force the parents to give up their PR, especially if they are of certain ethnic groups that the government now wishes they could thin out somewhat. :-|

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Re:

Postby wwww » Mon, 26 Jan 2015 3:32 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
bro75 wrote:PR approval is not a mere formality for children of some PRs. PR rejection rates of children are high for certain nationalities (based on my experience and other anecdotal evidence). You can still apply and see for yourself.


I was skirting THAT issue as the OP had not volunteered their nationality. :-/

That is also a very distinct possibility and is a way to almost force the parents to give up their PR, especially if they are of certain ethnic groups that the government now wishes they could thin out somewhat. :-|



It has been three months since we applied for the PR of our newborn, but so far the application is still pending. While I am aware that this is still not a very long duration for a PR application, it still surprises me that the gahmen would take that long to mull over my son's PR.

Our own PRs have been approved within 4 months in 2012 (which was relatively fast back then). We are Swiss and Japanese (our son has both nationalities) so we should, to my knowledge, not be part of the "unwanted" nationalities (correct me if I am wrong).

Should I get worried about my REP, or is this the new normal?

Thanks

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Re: PR parents - my wife is giving birth to a son

Postby zzm9980 » Mon, 26 Jan 2015 3:48 pm

Depends on the income level I assume in your case. I wouldn't worry yet, but do update us.

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Re: Re:

Postby PNGMK » Mon, 26 Jan 2015 3:50 pm

wwww wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:
bro75 wrote:PR approval is not a mere formality for children of some PRs. PR rejection rates of children are high for certain nationalities (based on my experience and other anecdotal evidence). You can still apply and see for yourself.


I was skirting THAT issue as the OP had not volunteered their nationality. :-/

That is also a very distinct possibility and is a way to almost force the parents to give up their PR, especially if they are of certain ethnic groups that the government now wishes they could thin out somewhat. :-|



It has been three months since we applied for the PR of our newborn, but so far the application is still pending. While I am aware that this is still not a very long duration for a PR application, it still surprises me that the gahmen would take that long to mull over my son's PR.

Our own PRs have been approved within 4 months in 2012 (which was relatively fast back then). We are Swiss and Japanese (our son has both nationalities) so we should, to my knowledge, not be part of the "unwanted" nationalities (correct me if I am wrong).

Should I get worried about my REP, or is this the new normal?

Thanks


It's the new normal I think.
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Re: PR parents - my wife is giving birth to a son

Postby wwww » Mon, 26 Jan 2015 3:55 pm

zzm9980 wrote:Depends on the income level I assume in your case. I wouldn't worry yet, but do update us.


Thanks SMS.

According to my and my wife's 2014 tax statements, we made roughly 200k together. So this should hopefully not be an issue...

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Re: PR parents - my wife is giving birth to a son

Postby zzm9980 » Mon, 26 Jan 2015 8:31 pm

wwww wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:Depends on the income level I assume in your case. I wouldn't worry yet, but do update us.


Thanks SMS.

According to my and my wife's 2014 tax statements, we made roughly 200k together. So this should hopefully not be an issue...


Do update us then on what happens.

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Re: PR parents - my wife is giving birth to a son

Postby kwy » Sun, 01 Feb 2015 4:58 pm

I had always understood that children (boys) of PR parents are required to do military service.
Am I wrong?
Is it only if the child is PR in his own right?
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Re: PR parents - my wife is giving birth to a son

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 01 Feb 2015 5:55 pm

If the child acquired PR as the son of a PR, then he is considered a 2nd Gen PR and yes, he is liable to do NS. There are a lot of thread in the Strictly Speaking sup-forum under the General Forum that will give you almost all you need to know. Suffice it to say, there is a myriad of pitfalls to avoid and if you don't know what you are doing, you can royally screw up your son's entire future without knowing it. Things like keeping him on an LTVP and putting him in an International School to avoid NS will come back and haunt him later as ICA will know that his parents are PR and why it was done. They have a long, long memory and he will never work here or be given an employment pass or even be able to get PR. And the moment he turns 21, he will no longer be able to stay in Singapore on an LTVP as he will no longer be considered a minor. Be careful. Be VERY careful.

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Re: PR parents - my wife is giving birth to a son

Postby PNGMK » Sun, 01 Feb 2015 7:34 pm

kwy wrote:I had always understood that children (boys) of PR parents are required to do military service.
Am I wrong?
Is it only if the child is PR in his own right?


Pretty much yes. it the boy is a PR. If he is not a PR then all that SMS says above may apply if an LTVP applies. IF you have a son and then leave Singapore ASAP and don't renew your REP (i.e. cancel PR) there are not likely to be long term issues IMO.
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