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Anyone watched 'the passion to the christ'?

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Anyone watched 'the passion to the christ'?

Postby joop » Mon, 12 Apr 2004 1:12 pm

Has anyone watched it? Heard it was very any?
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Re: Anyone watched 'the passion to the christ'?

Postby lis » Mon, 12 Apr 2004 1:30 pm

Angel wrote:Has anyone watched it? Heard it was very any?

Personally ...I like it as its A very GOOD entertaining movie... :o

But just be prepared for the violence & tissues as I cried non stop .... :?


Postby Natalia » Mon, 12 Apr 2004 3:31 pm

Yeah me too.... I've never cried that much for a movie in my lifetime.
But it's a great movie. Must see!

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Postby jpatokal » Mon, 12 Apr 2004 9:04 pm

Well well, I was about to post about this, but looks like for once someone beat me to it...

Anyway, if it had to summarize the movie in one word, it would be "disgusting". There's no suspense and little drama since the plot is obvious ("gee, I wonder is Jesus will be crucified?"), most of the characters are made out of cardboard, and over 75% of the movie consists of Jesus getting the shit beat out of him -- by the time he's stumbling up Golgotha, he looks like an escaped zombie from the Dawn of the Dead with a couple of bottles of drying ketchup poured over him. The movie manages to be annoyingly proselytizing without actually providing anything in way of moral content, which is quite an achievement of sorts. :evil:

And why "disgusting"? Because any 16-year-old Singaporean can now go watch a very realistic depiction of a man getting tortured to death, but won't be allowed to see a picture of a woman's breast for another 5 years. And when you wince while watching Jesus get caned, remember that the very same punishment is still being dealt out in Changi every single day -- as of 1993, at a rate of over 3000 per year. (Newer figures are not available.)

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Postby Pal » Mon, 12 Apr 2004 9:18 pm

LOL JP ... you are always so direct :lol:

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Postby aPp|e83^ » Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:21 pm

OMG .. I watch the movie endup sleeping .. I simply don't understand the details and whatever they are talking man~ :!:

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Postby Aurora » Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:38 pm

Thought the movie was good, despite the bad reviews some people had.

Had expected controversial arguments and comments for this movie. I guess you have to understand what the show is about to appreciate it.

First of all, I admit it was gruesome, and..yes..bloody...
But for those who have read the bible passage or have a little background on Christianity, the show would have shown and reflected a different meaning.

Comparing it to prisoners at Changi is very different from what Jesus went through. For one, remember the last part at the cruxification, one of the prisoners said that they deserved it, but why Jesus, for he had done nothing wrong. That, was in fact only just said once in the movie, but several times. As I said, this is a very controversial movie, so there would be no end if we were to argue who is right.

It's not hard to guess why most people wouldn't understand or appreciate the show.

For those who didn't like it, maybe with a little explanation, you might have understood and appreciated it a lil more.

For those who cried, lets applaud for the show was a success then.

Have heard feedback from many friends who have watched it, most thought it was painful, bloody and gruesome. But overall, everyone had their thumbs up for the entire show. The actors were fantastic and graphics were good as well.



Postby treasures » Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:02 pm

jpatokal reminds me of Simon Cowell :D

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Postby jpatokal » Tue, 13 Apr 2004 9:19 pm

treasures wrote:jpatokal reminds me of Simon Cowell :D

Time to apply for Singaporean Idol 8)

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Postby jpatokal » Tue, 13 Apr 2004 9:32 pm

Taking off the Simon Cowell hat for a moment:

Ally wrote:First of all, I admit it was gruesome, and..yes..bloody...
But for those who have read the bible passage or have a little background on Christianity, the show would have shown and reflected a different meaning.

Um, not only have I read the Bible, I've actually walked the Via Dolorosa in Jerusalem a couple of times. (Come to think of it, the last time was exactly a year ago on Easter Sunday -- they even have a procession complete with cross-carriers.)

And while I'll give the movie major credit for managing to make northern Italy look exactly like Jerusalem, IMHO the direction and level of acting was so bad it was impossible for me to suspend disbelief. Torturers laughing like maniacs with closeups of rotten teeth, Satan floating about clutching an Evil baby with a capital E, Herod turned into a fat flaming drunkard... all the subtlety of a George W. Bush speech. Pilate was the only character with even the tiniest shred of complexity, and no explanation is provided for why he actually cares about a heretic with delusions of grandeur.


Passion of Christ

Postby Natalia » Wed, 05 May 2004 9:59 am

jpatokal wrote:Taking off the Simon Cowell hat for a moment:

Torturers laughing like maniacs with closeups of rotten teeth, Satan floating about clutching an Evil baby with a capital E, Herod turned into a fat flaming drunkard... all the subtlety of a George W. Bush speech. Pilate was the only character with even the tiniest shred of complexity, and no explanation is provided for why he actually cares about a heretic with delusions of grandeur.

I agreed with you. When I watched the movie, I thought what a stupid idea to show the devil in that way. But that was before I read some explanation about it. Here it is:

These are personal notes from a group discussion with a priest

called Fr. Sean of the Legionaries of Christ. The discussion took
place on Friday, February 27, 2004 at the St. Joseph Center in
Alhambra. Fr. Sean said he has seen the movie 6 times and that

his Order had a priest on the set every day that Mel Gibson was

shooting the movie.

Because of this, he was privy to much information about the

symbolism throughout the picture. These notes are merely a guide

to ideas brought up in discussion that night and are by no means a

comprehensive list.

1) What was the meaning of the evil baby that Satan was holding?

That image of Satan holding an ugly child is an anti-Madonna image.

The child represents the future persecutions of the body of Christ, the

Church. The child is ugly because evil is a deformation of good. The

child is stroking the face of Satan because evil perverts what is good.

The stroking symbolizes the love of evil, much like a child would love

its mother, but in a perverted way.

Remember this image happens when Jesus is being scourged. His

body is being wounded. His body is being persecuted. It is an image

used by Mel Gibson to show Satan flaunting his future plan of

persecution of the Church in the face of the sacrifice of the Lord.

2) Why is this movie so violent?

The violence you see Jim Caviezel endure as Jesus is really a reflection
of the violence that sin does to our souls. Violence is the effect of sin on

our souls. It destroys and disfigures us. It maims us. It makes us look

inhuman, ugly and hideous before the Father. The violence also
represents the price of our redemption. Since Jesus took on our sin, He
was made sin for us according to St. Paul, He took on the punishment
of that sin.

For our sake he made him to be sin who did not know sin, so that we
might become the righteousness of God in him (2 Corinthians 5:21)

This is the purpose of the violence in the film, to get people to realize

the price that is paid by the body of Christ when people commit sin

and the price paid by the Savior to set us free.

3) There was a discussion about the Agony in the Garden scene.

Fr. Sean brought up the idea that the reason Jesus suffered in the

Garden was because that is the moment He took on sin for us.
St. Paul says that God the Father made Jesus. This is the moment

when it happens in the Garden. Since Jesus is the Son of God and

God is pure love, taking on the sin of the world, yours and mine,
the sin of a Hitler, a Stalin, a Genghis Kahn, etc., was an excruciating

experience for Him. At that moment, pure Love was forced to coexist

with the evil effect of sin in the agony Jesus experienced in the

Garden of Gethsemane.

4) In the Garden of Gethsemane, what is the snake a reference to?

Genesis 3:15 *And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and
between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will

strike his heel.* Notice that Jesus suffers immensely while Satan

adds to His burden but then Jesus makes a decision to do the
Fathers will and with that resolve he stomps on the snake to kill it.

5) There are plenty of Mass references in this picture.

When Jesus is being stripped, the movie flashes back to the Last

Supper when the bread is brought to the table and uncovered. When
Jesus is being elevated on the cross after being nailed to it, we see
a flashback to the Last Supper when Jesus raises the bread and says,
This is my body The apostle John is shown as the one who remembers
these flashbacks and who makes the connection between the Bread of

Life on the cross and the Breaking of the Bread at the Last Supper.

6) When is the first time we see Mary?

Just as Jesus is arrested and put into chains. She wakes up saying

"Why is this night different than any other?" And Mary Magdalene
responds that this is the night that they were set free from slavery.
Where do these lines come from? They are the words that the youngest
says to the oldest at a Jewish Passover/Seder supper ritual. In this
case, the oldest was saying them to the youngest because this was THE
night that would set in motion the plan of salvation to set us free from
sin. The new Passover had begun with Jesus as the Lamb.

Maia Morgenstern, a Jewess herself, had the idea to use these lines in

the scene and when she explained them to Mel, he agreed they had to

be included in the picture to tie everything together.

7) When is the first time we see a maggot?

In the Garden of Gethsemane when you see one crawling in and out of

the nostril of Satan. It is a very quick scene. When do we see a maggot
again? When Judas finds himself sitting next to a maggot infested mule.
The maggot represents death and corruption.

8) In this picture Pontius Pilate was portrayed sympathetically. Why so?

Mel wanted him to represent the struggle of every man when faced with
moral choices. It was obvious to Pilate that Jesus was an innocent man.

It was obvious to Pilate that Barabbas was corrupt. (It was no accident

that his makeup made Barabbas look even more evil and deranged.)

To Pilate the right choice was obvious but he did not make it because

of his own fears and the pressure from an unruly crowd he wanted to

appease. Melaâ'¬*s message was that every time we choose sin, the

choice is always obvious like the choice between Barabbas and Jesus.

Of course there are times when the temptation that approaches us is

very beautiful in appearance, but down deep inside, we know what the

choice should be and very often we do exactly what Pilate did and

afterwards try to wash our hands to relieve our guilt.

9) Why was there a scene when Jesus falls over the bridge only to find

Judas at the bottom?

Judas has just denied Jesus in the Garden. At this moment, Judas
represents every man who when faced with the truth denies it. In this

scene, he represents every man who runs away from the truth and

Mel Gibson wanted to remind the audience that you cannot run away

and hide from the truth because the truth will always find you. In this

case, Jesus has been arrested, is beaten and falls from the bridge

while hanging in chains right in front of Judas. The Truth found Judas

even though he had denied Him and tried to hide from Him.

10) Notice that in the picture whenever Satan is shown, he is always

in the background moving behind the scenes and whenever there is

intensity and anger in the foreground directed towards Jesus. This is

symbolic of his actions motivating the aggression and intensity of

persecution against the Body of Christ, the Church, and also is

symbolic of his responsibility behind all evil motivations.

11) When Jesus is before Pilate, He notices a dove in the sky above


It represents a reminder of the vertical dimension, the relationship

between man and God. We as human beings are often caught up in

the horizontal dimension (relationships with men and worldly affairs)

and forget there is a vertical dimension. The vertical dimension

represents the spiritual life, the relationship of a soul with the Father.

The vertical dimension is what is more important and the dove is a

reminder to Jesus that the vertical dimension is in control despite

the appearance of the situation.

12) Why do Mary and Mary Magdalene clean up the blood on the

cobble stones after Jesus is scourged?

It is because it is Jewish tradition to save the blood. Life is in the
blood. Blood had to be collected. This is also representative of the
cleaning of the vessels at Mass when a priest is done with the
consecration and giving out the Eucharist. The blood was precious

and Jesus blood particularly is precious. Notice that they also \

collected the instruments that made Him bleed at the very end of the

film when you see the crown of thorns, the nails and the hammer at

the foot of the cross as they take down the body of Jesus.

13) There is a scene at the crucifixion where Mary Magdalene
is the only one who sees a miracle happen. It is a very quick
scene and it happens when she is on her knees (notice that the only
ones on their knees are Mary, John and the Magdalene at the

Jesus has been nailed to the cross and the Romans are turning it

over. You expect Jesus to smash His face into the ground when the
cross falls over but it does not happen. Instead what you see is the
Magdalene looking up to see that the cross is floating above the ground.

She is the only one to see that Jesus is floating a few inches above the
ground the entire time that they are hammering the nails on the back of

the cross to secure them. It is a representation of God still in control of
the whole crucifixion process.

14) Every time that Jesus meets His mother Mary along His Passion

He is strengthened and has new resolve. This is especially noticeable

after Jesus is scourged the first time. The Romans have beat him over

70 times and He has collapsed. He sees Mary and finds the strength to

stand up much to the dismay and surprise of the Roman soldiers who

then decide to use a more vicious whip with metal tips.

This scene represents the idea that Mary is living proof to Jesus, that

the sacrifice He is about to make for mankind is not in vain. The film

shows that Jesus comes to a decision to continue on the path to

Calvary each time they look at each other. Some say it reinforces the

idea of Mary as co-redemptrix.

15) Simon of Cyrene represents every man who is faced with the cross

and does not want to carry it. He also represents those who do not want

to help others carry their crosses. Yet, in this film he also represents the

person who is forced to carry the cross and then becomes so engaged

with Christ that he wants a deeper relationship with Him.

The arms of Jesus and Simon the Cyrene are intertwined as they carry

the cross together and that image represents the efforts of each soul

carrying its cross with the help of the Savior.

That final look that Simon gives Jesus after he has finished helping Him,
represents the longing of every soul to have a deeper relationship with
the Lord after coming face to face with Him. It was through carrying
the cross that Simon came to have a desire to have an intimate
relationship with Jesus much like that of the soul who longs to know

Christ better in the midst of suffering.

16) Notice in the Garden of Gethsemane scene when Judas denies

Jesus that the Lord never takes His eyes off of him when he denies Him.

The Lord never takes His eyes off of Judas even when Judas runs away.

That is representative of the Lord's own relationship with us. Jesus never

takes His eyes off of us when we deny Him or turn away from Him.



Postby Guest » Wed, 05 May 2004 1:01 pm

Thnak you so much for your exposition of the scenes from the Passion film It was very very helpful

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Postby jpatokal » Wed, 05 May 2004 8:38 pm

Natalia, quite interesting!

...although, ever the skeptic, I can't help but wonder if there's much point to including symbolism that can't be understood without explanation. Still, I almost feel like watching it again with notes in hand...


Postby Natalia » Thu, 06 May 2004 5:15 pm

Yeah, many people have the same comment... they want to watch the movie again with the notes on hand. :)
As for me, I think I prefer not to watch it again. The movie made me depressed for 2 days. :(


Postby Durial » Thu, 10 Mar 2005 9:27 pm

I don't think you lot understood the real message behind this movie. Your comments are juvenile and you seem quite unaware of what the scenes are trying to throw light upon. :lol:

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