Long Term Visit Pass application issue

[JR8]

Ah, apologies. This is what can happen when existing threads get 'taken over'.

... I'll go back and look again ...

[JR8]

I'm seeking advice on how to complete a notarised affadavit for my partner to stay in Singapore.

http://www.sal.org.sg/content/LI_conp.aspx

http://www.yellowpages.com.sg/listing/N ... ary-Public

Maybe the point is that we 'generalists' can perhaps point you in the right direction, but we can't give specific advice, especially in shifting laws and circumstances such as this.

[IanE]

Ah, apologies. This is what can happen when existing threads get 'taken over'.

No problem at all, I can see where the confusion came from.

Maybe the point is that we 'generalists' can perhaps point you in the right direction, but we can't give specific advice, especially in shifting laws and circumstances such as this.

Thanks for the links, I'm more than happy to be pointed in the right direction and then I can investigate further. I don't expect everything to be set out in front of me, but I appreciate any help and advice supplied

[Hannah235]

IanE, we're in a very similar position to you. My boyfriend's company transferred him to Singapore at the start of this year for a period of 2 years and he duly applied for and received an EP pass. We've been together for a few years and lived together in the UK. I was (I think understandably?) not keen to be left behind for 2 years and made arrangements to leave my own job in order to relocate with him. I would love to get a job & EP in my own right here in Singapore but so far haven't been successful (but that's another story). We checked with MoM before we came and were told by their customer services representative that for LTVP we needed proof that we were in a common-law relationship and this could be done 3 ways:

The EP applicant / holder’s statutory declaration can be made:
1. before any Commissioner for Oaths
2. at the EP holder’s embassy; or
3. at a notary firm

Please note that Ministry of Manpower does not have specific format for the Statutory Declarations.

As the British High Commission had already told us that they wouldn't get involved, we went for the third option and arranged to meet with a notary (for a fee of course!). Before we went we googled a few examples of "statutory declarations" and drafted a statement about how long we had been together, how long we'd lived together and took along proof e.g. bills in both names etc, and that my boyfriend was willing to support me financially. This was fairly straightforward, was stamped by the notary after he checked our supporting documents, and we were pretty confident we'd met their requirements.

A couple of weeks ago I got a letter from MoM asking for further information: namely, a letter from the embassy. I checked again, and the British High Commission confirmed that they would not get involved in any visa issues (how helpful). I e-mailed MoM again, and they acknowledged that they are aware of previous cases where the British and Australian embassies wouldn't get involved. They gave me the same advice that I copied above (dated after the apparent rule change on 1st March?). I therefore resubmitted the notarised statement along with their e-mails.

I have just heard back today that my application was denied, but with no explanation. I can only assume it is because we didn't have the embassy letter they requested, despite MoM telling me twice, in writing, that I didn't need one!

I think basically, I'm trying to
1. Vaguely explain how to go about the notary process but
2. Warn you that this didn't seem to be accepted by MoM for us?

The whole thing is pretty frustrating. If you have any luck with appeals etc I'd be very grateful if you let me know, as we're a bit stuck as to what to do next (other than get married? How unromantic!)

[IanE]

It does seem that your situation is very similar to ours, but you seem to be further ahead in the process and frustrations.

Before we left the UK I checked the criteria on the MoM website needed to get an LTVP and I saw that they would need a letter from the relevant embassy or high commission. I checked with the British High Commission and they said that they had an agreement with MoM that British nationals didn't need this documentation. Unfortunately, I (rather naively with hindsight) believed this and we went ahead and made the move, thinking that I wouldn't need any other proof.

Thanks for explaining about the notary process, I appreciate it. I have contacted a law firm and they have asked us to put together some documentation on our relationship so that they can put together an affadavit and get it notarised. I realise that this will cost us more than creating the affadavit ourselves, but hopefully it will give us more of a chance with MoM.

Prior to leaving the UK, we shredded or put into storage a load of old documents that probably would have been pretty useful as proof of our relationship, we just didn't think that we'd need it at the time. We tended to split our bills previously and not have them in joint names, so this could be quite tricky, but we're seeing what we can find.

Good luck with your situation too, I read somewhere, I think it was from a search on this website where some said that they wrote an email to MoM and copied in some quite senior people in MoM, who they managed to find using a Google search and they found that this helped their situation. Let me know if you get any better luck.

I will update you if we manage to get any further too....

[migratingbird]

I'm in the same boat too - except we're not in Singapore yet. We got a notarized declaration in the country we are currently living in, however our application was still rejected because it wasn't from the BHC. I'm hoping that my partner is accepted on to the uni course he has applied to or else we will definitely have to get married. We were going to get married anyway...it would just be nice to save and do it properly. The way it stands it'll just be the two of us and our one-year old daughter in an Kenyan courthouse! Not so romantic...!

[JR8]

I don't think (and IME) the venue and cost matters a jot; it is the intent.

Do what's needed now. Hold a 'celebration' later on, if you feel that would be appropriate.

[migratingbird]

Do you know, JR8, I always thought that myself...until it actually came down to it, and now that it seems I might have no option I suddenly want the dress and the flowers! Never knew I was a romantic traditionalist at heart!

[JR8]

Do you know, JR8, I always thought that myself...until it actually came down to it, and now that it seems I might have no option I suddenly want the dress and the flowers! Never knew I was a romantic traditionalist at heart!

You can have all of that.


More to the point do you have 100 friends and family and their individual expectations to cater for?

The latter will matter little once you're married. It'll be your day, and your party, rather than theirs

[nic152]

Hi IanE and Hannah235, How did your applications go in the end? Have they been approved? I am in the same situation as yourselves and am rather confused as to how to start the process. My boyfriend's company have put us in contact with a visa specialist but they don't seem to be able to tell us what we need for the affidavit. In fact they sent us through a copy of a statutory declaration which is not an affidavit (it's a separate and different type of legal document!) but the MOM speak of an affidavit on their website so I'm pretty sure this is what we need. Do you have a standard layout for the affidavit that you might be willing to share with us? Our contact has told us to put something together but I am wary of this as these type of documents have necessary boxes they need to tick and I'm no solicitor! I even have a couple of family friends who are solicitors who don't seem to be able to help...anyway any info would be much appreciated

[IanE]

Hi nic152. Unfortunately we haven't been able to make any progress with our application and are at stalemate with MoM.

This is because MoM are insisting that the notarised affidavit must come from the British High Commission, whilst the High Commission say that they are unable to supply this affidavit as the UK doesn't recognise common-law marriage. We got a solicitor to write a notarised affidavit for us (although the title of the document was a "Statutory Declaration", the fact that it was signed by a notary apparently made it a "notarised affidavit"), supplying evidence that we've been living as a common-law couple for six years, but MoM rejected this and insisted that it must come from the High Commission.

I have written to MoM numerous times explaining how when we started our move to Singapore (in January) I checked with the British High Commission and they said that they had an agreement with MoM that British nationals did not require this documentation. However it appears that by the time we got to Singapore, MoM had changed the rules without informing the High Commission and they are not respecting this with regards to our application.

The latest from MoM that I received was "We have considered your request and the information provided but unless the relationship is recognised by the country with supporting document such as a copy of the common-law marriage certificate, a letter from the embassy or a copy of the notarised affidavit, we are not able to consider the LTVP application."

Anyway, sorry to not be able to give you any more positive information.

[JR8]

The latest from MoM that I received was "We have considered your request and the information provided but unless the relationship is recognised by the country with supporting document such as a copy of the common-law marriage certificate, a letter from the embassy or a copy of the notarised affidavit, we are not able to consider the LTVP application."

If what you describe is the correct interpretation, then it looks like LTVPs for common-law spouses are no longer an option for UK nationals.

p.s. no idea what a 'common-law marriage certificate' is, since the legal status comes about outside of any physical or legal procedure.

[sundaymorningstaple]

It was just a matter of time before the loophole was slammed shut. They don't allow common law marriages for Citizens so they were in an uproar. Looks like the door is closing as just one more way to reduce the socially unacceptable practice (in Asia) and stay in line with the need to further reduce foreign manpower here. It's rough. Marriage is an option though.

[JR8]

It was just a matter of time before the loophole was slammed shut. They don't allow common law marriages for Citizens so they were in an uproar.

Ah, yes I suppose when issues like marriage tie into matters like locals buying HDBs, the very existence of de facto marriage for FTs is not going to prove popular ('If they (Foreign Trashes) can be considered effectively married for visas, why can't we (true blues) for housing!!?...').

Looks like the door is closing as just one more way to reduce the socially unacceptable practice (in Asia) and stay in line with the need to further reduce foreign manpower here. It's rough. Marriage is an option though.

So does one assume that couples in gay relationships, including marriages, are also effected? After all, they too are 'not an option for citizens'? If so, no de facto marriages, straight or gay... gonna be an issue there, down the track, probably when someone SG needs here declines on the basis that his/her 'other half' would be declined residency...


p.s. 'Marriage is an option', for some people. But for some others that have chosen not to become married, then doing so for a visa is not desirable. Others have chosen not to be married, and won't do so under any circumstances.

[IanE]

If what you describe is the correct interpretation, then it looks like LTVPs for common-law spouses are no longer an option for UK nationals.

Yes, it looks like that is the case as the documentation that MoM are insisting on receiving isn't possible to be provided according to the British High Commission.

It is most frustrating that we moved to Singapore with the advice from the British High Commission at the time that MoM didn't require the documentation due to an agreement with MoM, but now that we're here we can't get an LTVP, through no fault of our own.