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PR Rejected - Need Feedback/Comments

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hitzs
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PR Rejected - Need Feedback/Comments

Postby hitzs » Sun, 13 Apr 2014 8:55 pm

Hello All,

I applied for PR in Oct'13 and got rejected (second time) I am trying to understand the possible reasons and need your help in that...

My Details:
- 33 yrs old Indian, married in Nov 2010
- Bachelor of Engineering from India, MBA from one of the top 15 global universities
- Working in SG for the last 5 years with a local bank (technology department) and at time of application basic annual salary was 130K and an approx. bonus of 4 months each year - Total about 175K/ per annum
- Hold PEP pass
- Own a property

My wife's details:
- 30 year old from India
- B.A. & MBA from India
- Working in a MNC bank for the last 1.5 years.
- Annual salary: approx. 80K/annum

Children - No kids

I understand the likely reasons for first rejection - I was single and in SG for less than a year. However I really need your help with understanding the reasons for the second rejection as I seriously thought that over the last 3 years (since last application) our profile has improved quite a bit - Been married for abt 3 years, bought property, better financial stability etc.

Possible reasons?
=> Too many Indian applications with similar profiles
=> No Kids
=> Wife had only 1.5 yrs exp in SG

Appreciate your comments. Thanks in advance :D
Last edited by hitzs on Sun, 13 Apr 2014 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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zzm9980
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Postby zzm9980 » Sun, 13 Apr 2014 11:21 pm

Root reason: You're not wanted by Singapore. Why? Too many Indians with similar or worse profiles already here. There is probably nothing you could reasonably do to positively adjust your chances. Lots of similar stories to yourself, just search this forum.

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Postby hitzs » Sun, 13 Apr 2014 11:38 pm

zzm9980 wrote:Root reason: You're not wanted by Singapore. Why? Too many Indians with similar or worse profiles already here. There is probably nothing you could reasonably do to positively adjust your chances. Lots of similar stories to yourself, just search this forum.


Thanks for your comment. You are probably right as well but had that been the case then couple of my friends from India who more or less applied at same time as I did and have pretty similar profiles, would have got the reject as well. But that's not the case....I definitely couldn't make out much based on these broad parameters and really blurred with ICA's criteria :)

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Postby zzm9980 » Mon, 14 Apr 2014 12:39 am

hitzs wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:Root reason: You're not wanted by Singapore. Why? Too many Indians with similar or worse profiles already here. There is probably nothing you could reasonably do to positively adjust your chances. Lots of similar stories to yourself, just search this forum.


Thanks for your comment. You are probably right as well but had that been the case then couple of my friends from India who more or less applied at same time as I did and have pretty similar profiles, would have got the reject as well. But that's not the case....I definitely couldn't make out much based on these broad parameters and really blurred with ICA's criteria :)


*shrug* What is different between you and them? It could just be random luck (unwritten quota?) or some small factor weighed in their favor.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 14 Apr 2014 6:52 am

Extended family back at home who could, in the future, end up in Singapore on ltvps based on either you or your spouse's sponsorship? They tend to look hard at collateral baggage. Have they asked, at any time, for more information regarding either of your family backgrounds? A lot get those requests for additional answers. Not saying this is the problem, but just tryin' to touch all the bases to see where there might be a correlation.

Are you working "with" or "for" a local bank. e.g., are you employed by the bank or by a manpower/IT service company under contract to the bank?

Where have you worked before? (Not the companies, but the countries).

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Postby x9200 » Mon, 14 Apr 2014 7:56 am

Also note that people with the profile similar to what you posted but with male children got rejected.

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Postby Barnsley » Mon, 14 Apr 2014 5:48 pm

Wind blowing in the wrong direction .....

There appears to be no rhyme nor reason for some rejections and some approvals.

However thats how it should be , keep folks on their toes.

Also as shown by SMS , there is some good business to be had in form filling for applicants. :cool:
Life is short, paddle harder!!

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Postby hitzs » Mon, 14 Apr 2014 10:33 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
hitzs wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:Root reason: You're not wanted by Singapore. Why? Too many Indians with similar or worse profiles already here. There is probably nothing you could reasonably do to positively adjust your chances. Lots of similar stories to yourself, just search this forum.


Thanks for your comment. You are probably right as well but had that been the case then couple of my friends from India who more or less applied at same time as I did and have pretty similar profiles, would have got the reject as well. But that's not the case....I definitely couldn't make out much based on these broad parameters and really blurred with ICA's criteria :)


*shrug* What is different between you and them? It could just be random luck (unwritten quota?) or some small factor weighed in their favor.


Honestly, nothing much that I can think of. Professionally quite similar (both spouse working in banks), education more or less same. Of those successful, few had kids but others neither have kids nor own property. If its just small factors, not much a worry as your PR can be approved at one point, if you commit to this place.

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Postby hitzs » Mon, 14 Apr 2014 11:20 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Extended family back at home who could, in the future, end up in Singapore on ltvps based on either you or your spouse's sponsorship? They tend to look hard at collateral baggage. Have they asked, at any time, for more information regarding either of your family backgrounds? A lot get those requests for additional answers. Not saying this is the problem, but just tryin' to touch all the bases to see where there might be a correlation.

Are you working "with" or "for" a local bank. e.g., are you employed by the bank or by a manpower/IT service company under contract to the bank?

Where have you worked before? (Not the companies, but the countries).


You raised few good points! Yes, my parents and siblings live in India. In fact during my first application they specifically enquired about my family background. My dad served Indian army for 30+ years but now retired and my mum was a home maker. I am not sure if that can be of any concern to ICA.

Secondly, I permanently work for local bank (not a contract). In fact I did join them through their fast track leadership program (Management Associate Program)

Lastly, prior to coming to SG, I worked in Cyprus for 3+ years (with frequent stays in Europe/Israel/Canada) and studied MBA in UK.

Btw over the last 4-5 years I have been promoted 3 times and last being to VP - last promotion is after my rejection :). Not sure if that is good enough a reason for appeal....appreciate your suggestion.

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Postby hitzs » Mon, 14 Apr 2014 11:25 pm

Barnsley wrote:Wind blowing in the wrong direction .....

There appears to be no rhyme nor reason for some rejections and some approvals.

However thats how it should be , keep folks on their toes.

Also as shown by SMS , there is some good business to be had in form filling for applicants. :cool:


Maybe wind blowing in a high mood :). I agree that this is the right way for approving PRs, only deserving ppl get it but consistency in the approach will help :)

btw what you mean by "Also as shown by SMS , there is some good business to be had in form filling for applicants."? Didn't quite get it...

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Postby taxico » Tue, 15 Apr 2014 8:52 am

hitzs wrote:btw what you mean by "Also as shown by SMS , there is some good business to be had in form filling for applicants."? Didn't quite get it...


this:

ftopic101375.html
Aut viam ad caelum inveniam aut faciam

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 15 Apr 2014 2:43 pm

hitzs wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:Extended family back at home who could, in the future, end up in Singapore on ltvps based on either you or your spouse's sponsorship? They tend to look hard at collateral baggage. Have they asked, at any time, for more information regarding either of your family backgrounds? A lot get those requests for additional answers. Not saying this is the problem, but just tryin' to touch all the bases to see where there might be a correlation.

Are you working "with" or "for" a local bank. e.g., are you employed by the bank or by a manpower/IT service company under contract to the bank?

Where have you worked before? (Not the companies, but the countries).


You raised few good points! Yes, my parents and siblings live in India. In fact during my first application they specifically enquired about my family background. My dad served Indian army for 30+ years but now retired and my mum was a home maker. I am not sure if that can be of any concern to ICA.

Secondly, I permanently work for local bank (not a contract). In fact I did join them through their fast track leadership program (Management Associate Program)

Lastly, prior to coming to SG, I worked in Cyprus for 3+ years (with frequent stays in Europe/Israel/Canada) and studied MBA in UK.

Btw over the last 4-5 years I have been promoted 3 times and last being to VP - last promotion is after my rejection :). Not sure if that is good enough a reason for appeal....appreciate your suggestion.


Okay, hitzs, this is how I read it, based on your additional info.

They have, in fact, already inquired about the state of your family. Not good, retired. Could become dependent baggage here which adds to the drain on resources here (money notwithstanding) due to space constraints and infrastructure loading. Yeah, I know, what's 2 additional old retired folks. Heavier strain on the medical facilities, more loading on public transport systems possibly, etc. (I could go on as well you could).

Secondly, and maybe most importantly, and many do not give this a thought at all, is the fact that you have been rather mobile, e.g., stints in Cyprus, the UK, Europe, Canada and Israel. This has all the hallmarks of a person chasing the dollar (of course we are) but if you look at it from the government's point of view, you don't look like a "stayer" but someone who will up and fly for a few dollars more. Doesn't make sense for them to use up a slot for PR for somebody who, on the surface anyway, looks like they are only taking it up for the short term benefits and not for any real love for the country. This is why a lot of high-flyers in the Financial sector are not given PR as the government realizes that they have little hope of "holding" them here. Middle managers make better "stayer" than seniors.

I don't like to be negative and I've been accused of it often, but I try to look at things from the government point of view as it's this point of view that the applicant will face with a government official.

Of course, if you have a real "niche" occupation that the country dearly needs, they they will jump through hoops to entice you to stay. But isn't that the same everywhere?

sms

NB: as I am married to an Indian as is my daughter, I know for a fact that good Indian boys can never escape their mothers and will try their best to bring them wherever they go. ;-)

Oh, I would give it another go, say in another 6 months or so. What are you going to lose? Aside from possibly another promotion that will see you in another country? ;-)

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Postby martincymru » Tue, 15 Apr 2014 3:19 pm

Is there a committee who decides PR Yes or PR No.

Perhaps one of the people in the know would care/dare to comment.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 15 Apr 2014 4:21 pm

I don't think it's a committee, per se. What we do know, more or less, is that each and every item on an application and peripheral documentation are given a point spread. The point spread also seems to have a bit of fluidity as the spread may shift upwards or downwards, depending on other scores/data input. Therefore, it is virtually impossible to replicate an application as so many of them try to do. Additionally, there are unspoken/unwritten codicils probably handed down on a monthly/quarterly basis from the powers that be, depending on which way the wind is blowing. Also, things that "helped" once now can be detrimental after a number of people find out and start a run on something. This just screws it for all that follow. A good example is the volunteering of time to charitable organizations or things like the GROs. The government has seen so many who have joined and subsequently stopped almost immediately after receiving their PR that they have stuffed it for those who follow. What do to?

It used to be, that you had an interview by two ICA officers (at the same time - they ganged up on you!) and you could theoretically blow it in the interview (I was told many years later by the same ICA officer who gave me mine, that it was pretty hard to blow it at the interview as they had already found you suitable - but I tried! That's another story). Now, the point spread system seems to have all but replaced that portion and your "interview" is actually the final processing. But back then everything was carried out manually and not by IT/computer.

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Postby rdueej » Tue, 15 Apr 2014 6:34 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Additionally, there are unspoken/unwritten codicils probably handed down on a monthly/quarterly basis from the powers that be, depending on which way the wind is blowing.


I think this the crucial factor which most applicants dreaming of tailoring their applications fail to realize.

Also, from my own experience, I think weekly/monthly/quarterly policy directives do exist. I remember a case where there were five extremely similar applicants, submitting their applications over a period of six months. After about another two months, all of them were approved within 1 week of each other.


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