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A difficult choice

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
SingaporeWorker
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A difficult choice

Postby SingaporeWorker » Sun, 13 Apr 2014 3:31 am

Hi all,

I am facing a difficult choice here, need some advice from you guys.

Background:

1. We are Chinese from China
2. Holding EP (P1) the basic salary 10K+/month.
3. Working as project manager in banking industry for 10 years.
4. Wife and 2 boys are holding DP and apply for PR together
5. I am going to acquire Master degree from NUS in Jul 2014
6. My wife started working in Jan 2014, as admin in a small company

My family (wife + 2 boys) have been living here in Singapore since my job was transferred from China to Singapore in Sep 2011.

We have applied for PR for 3 times, the last round was Nov 2013, and we are waiting for the "letter of rejection" - most likely I guess, as nothing has been changes significantly in our profile.

The problem is four of us are holding Canada PR, which was granted in Nov 2011 , and it will be expired by NOV 2016. The PR may be no longer valid if we are not living there by Nov 2014. (you have to stay for at least 2 year before you could renew your PR there)

We do not want to go back to China, and surely want to stay in Singapore for good.

However the Singapore PR is quite difficult to get, and most of the new policies are against foreigner since 2009, we feel not secure to put everything on my job here. Because everything depend on my job (DPs, my wife's job).

The plan is my wife and children will go to Canada and secure the PR there in Oct 2014, and I become a fly man to support them financially from Singapore. Meanwhile I will continue apply PR and bring them back until my PR is approved.

We understood the risk of doing this, and we believe it is manageable and determine to undertake the risk altogether, because the last thing we want to see is expiration of Canada PR and problem with my job here due to whatever reasons, then we have to go back to China.

There are two options for me:

1) I apply PR as family even though they would not be here after Nov 2014.

2) I apply the PR for myself, once it is done, I bring them back and apply for them.

Please help to advise which one is better, or if there is option 3.

Any piece of information or advice is helpful, thank you all in advance.

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Wd40
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Postby Wd40 » Sun, 13 Apr 2014 6:06 am

I don't see how its a difficult choice as per the title. Basically its no choice. You have Canada PR and dont have Singapore PR and you are unlikely to ever get the Singapore PR.

If I were you I would start looking for a job in Canada right away and move there along with my family.

Also if Singapore doesn't want you, have you considered Hong Kong? Your mandarin skills will be valuable there and banking industry there is good.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 13 Apr 2014 9:53 am

I'm afraid you are going to have to take a gamble as you probably appear to ICA as being paranoid as you have applied 3 times in the first two years you were here. Generally, one must wait two years or three tax assessments before applying for PR in order to be successful. So, at this point you have now put yourself between a rock and a hard place.

Old saying where I come from....."A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush".

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Postby AngMoG » Sun, 13 Apr 2014 12:22 pm

I think you should have really informed yourself a bit better about the PR procedures here; I think you actually lowered your chances by applying too early, and multiple times.

I think, frankly, that you have exactly two choices:
1) Stay here with your family - a P1 pass is currently not a big issue to renew currently, though that can change at the drop of a hat. As long as you have the P1, your family can also stay on DP. Let at least two years pass between your last/current rejection and your next application. Best if your profile improves (you & wife!) before you apply again.
2) Go back to Canada before Nov 2014 with your family. You already have a PR there, at least you have a secured future and no risk of being kicked out.

1 is your bird in the bush, 2 is your bird in the hand ;)

1 is definitely risky because you simply don't know if they don't change your mind at some point in the near future and not renew your EP anymore. Or, you could lose your job and not find a new one, or not get an EP for the new one. A lot of things could happen.

The following will not work:
The plan is my wife and children will go to Canada and secure the PR there in Oct 2014, and I become a fly man to support them financially from Singapore. Meanwhile I will continue apply PR and bring them back until my PR is approved.

For two reasons:
a) Singapore is prob aware of your Canadian PR if you declared it previously at any point in time, and would know what you are trying to do. The gov here doesn't like people who try to have the best of both worlds.
b) They will in any case know that you have family, and either applying with or without your family, when they're not here, would probably count against you.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 13 Apr 2014 1:03 pm

^^ Perxactly.

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Aragorn2000
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Re: A difficult choice

Postby Aragorn2000 » Mon, 14 Apr 2014 9:08 am

SingaporeWorker wrote:Hi all,

I am facing a difficult choice here, need some advice from you guys.

Background:

1. We are Chinese from China
2. Holding EP (P1) the basic salary 10K+/month.
3. Working as project manager in banking industry for 10 years.
4. Wife and 2 boys are holding DP and apply for PR together
5. I am going to acquire Master degree from NUS in Jul 2014
6. My wife started working in Jan 2014, as admin in a small company

My family (wife + 2 boys) have been living here in Singapore since my job was transferred from China to Singapore in Sep 2011.

We have applied for PR for 3 times, the last round was Nov 2013, and we are waiting for the "letter of rejection" - most likely I guess, as nothing has been changes significantly in our profile.

The problem is four of us are holding Canada PR, which was granted in Nov 2011 , and it will be expired by NOV 2016. The PR may be no longer valid if we are not living there by Nov 2014. (you have to stay for at least 2 year before you could renew your PR there)

We do not want to go back to China, and surely want to stay in Singapore for good.

However the Singapore PR is quite difficult to get, and most of the new policies are against foreigner since 2009, we feel not secure to put everything on my job here. Because everything depend on my job (DPs, my wife's job).

The plan is my wife and children will go to Canada and secure the PR there in Oct 2014, and I become a fly man to support them financially from Singapore. Meanwhile I will continue apply PR and bring them back until my PR is approved.

We understood the risk of doing this, and we believe it is manageable and determine to undertake the risk altogether, because the last thing we want to see is expiration of Canada PR and problem with my job here due to whatever reasons, then we have to go back to China.

There are two options for me:

1) I apply PR as family even though they would not be here after Nov 2014.

2) I apply the PR for myself, once it is done, I bring them back and apply for them.

Please help to advise which one is better, or if there is option 3.

Any piece of information or advice is helpful, thank you all in advance.


Care to elaborate why you put a higher priority to an uncertain life in Singapore vs Canadian PR?

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the lynx
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Postby the lynx » Mon, 14 Apr 2014 9:11 am

AngMoG wrote:I think, frankly, that you have exactly two choices:
1) Stay here with your family - a P1 pass is currently not a big issue to renew currently, though that can change at the drop of a hat. As long as you have the P1, your family can also stay on DP. Let at least two years pass between your last/current rejection and your next application. Best if your profile improves (you & wife!) before you apply again.
2) Go back to Canada before Nov 2014 with your family. You already have a PR there, at least you have a secured future and no risk of being kicked out.

1 is your bird in the bush, 2 is your bird in the hand ;)

1 is definitely risky because you simply don't know if they don't change your mind at some point in the near future and not renew your EP anymore. Or, you could lose your job and not find a new one, or not get an EP for the new one. A lot of things could happen.


I agree. To add to what AngMoG said, your bird in the hand is the only option you have because you will lose your Canada PR for good if you try to go for the bird in the bush (Singapore PR). Better drop everything and preserve what you already have.

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Postby gailwynand » Mon, 14 Apr 2014 1:01 pm

No offense, I like Singapore and everything but if I had to settle down in either Canada or SG I'd pick Canada without a second thought. Especially since SG's policies are much more "flexible" and as a member of one of the unpopular immigrant groups you stand a chance of finding yourself in a bad spot a few years down the road.

Why not move to Canada long enough to get citizenship? Then you have a greater sense of security, and SG will always be around later on.

If the cultural environment here is what's appealing to you, you can always live in Vancouver. It's expensive but no worse than SG.

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Postby SingaporeWorker » Wed, 16 Apr 2014 9:11 pm

Dear all,

Appreciated for your constructive comments. It seems the only options is going to Canada :-)

To answer your question - why we set higher priority to Singapore:

a. Same time zone as China
b. Closer to China geographically, as my parents are living in Shanghai, it will be easier for me to approach them if anything happened
c. The Chinese culture here, it will be easier for my parent to get used in Singapore
d. My boys will take advantage of speaking both mandarin and English here.
e. The lower income tax and attractive benefits of being a Citizen here
f. I have a proper job with a reasonable pay, while the income will be shrunken to a large extent in Vancourer.

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Postby rcan » Wed, 16 Apr 2014 11:29 pm

Go for Canada if you have it secured. Speaking as a Canadian working in Singapore for the last six years, quality of life is much better for the long term. Sure taxes are low here, but the cost of living is much lower in Canada. Also the benefits of universal healthcare as well as all of the other social benefits especially for young families, I think you are lucky to have been given the opportunity to set roots in Canada (especially nowadays as it's becoming more difficult to gain PR status (or as it's referred in Canada as 'landed immigrant').

Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal (though French) are incredible cities with immense Chinese communities. There are even large suburbs cities in Toronto that have such a large Chinese population street and store signs are in Chinese - your parents would easily be able to adapt.

Anyway, ultimately the decision is up to you but as a Canadian who has spent a lot of time in Singapore, I have to say the long term opportunities are much greater there.

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the lynx
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Postby the lynx » Thu, 17 Apr 2014 9:32 am

SingaporeWorker wrote:Dear all,

Appreciated for your constructive comments. It seems the only options is going to Canada :-)

To answer your question - why we set higher priority to Singapore:

a. Same time zone as China

Fair enough

b. Closer to China geographically, as my parents are living in Shanghai, it will be easier for me to approach them if anything happened

Reasonable, if you factor in filial piety that exists in many Asian cultures.

c. The Chinese culture here, it will be easier for my parent to get used in Singapore

Here you will have a problem. ICA is not keen to have collateral baggage in the form of PR's parents in Singapore, for many reasons. I'm not sure if you mean that your parents will be able to get used to Singapore as tourists or as long-term residents but trust me, ICA doesn't want them as residents together with you and they have been rejecting PR of many applicants on that basis. Which leads me to ask, did ICA ask you to send in more details of your extended family members before?


d. My boys will take advantage of speaking both mandarin and English here.

That's one good point. Although you will have both bastardised Mandarin AND English here, unless your family has the discipline to teach them to stick to the proper Mandarin and English. There is a reason Vancouver is called HongKouver (there is waaaaaay too many Chinese, regardless of the origins in Canada). Chinese culture in Canada is strong enough to instil the language in family setting.

e. The lower income tax and attractive benefits of being a Citizen here

If you can get a citizenship, but that's a nice wish to have.

f. I have a proper job with a reasonable pay, while the income will be shrunken to a large extent in Vancouver.

You will have more relaxed life, that's one way to look at that.


To add, if you apply as a single person without including your family, it will be highly suspicious for ICA and if they find out that your family, as a unit, tries to hold on to both Canadian and Singaporean PR, you will end up losing both in the process and that will suck big time. Stick to that bird in the hand.


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