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Dual Citizenship for Singaporeans by Birth

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unforgiven
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Dual Citizenship for Singaporeans by Birth

Postby unforgiven » Tue, 25 Mar 2014 12:27 pm

Hi, thanks so much to everyone here in this forum who have actively contributed their experiences and opinions. Although this is my first post, I have benefited greatly from the information in here, so please accept my heartfelt thanks. Not sure if this has been discussed before, but I would like to put this out in the open and seek your views if any.

My son currently holds dual citizenship. He was born in Singapore, and has Singapore citizenship by BIRTH as I am a Singapore citizen. At the same time he holds a citizenship with Country X by BIRTH as his mother is a X citizen. I applied for the necessary with Country X's embassy here in Singapore to obtain his citizenship.

I have always assumed that all Singaporean minors (regardless of how citizenship is acquired) with dual citizenship are required to choose between the two when they reach the age of 21. I have recently discovered while researching online, that the Singapore Constitution only makes mention to this for Singaporeans by registration / descent. There are no provisions for the same for Singaporeans by birth.

This is an interesting revelation because it means that my son who acquired his Singapore citizenship by birth, cannot be forced to renounce his foreign citizenship under the Singapore Constitution.

What I would like to know is, has anyone (or their kids) been in the same situation? Have they been asked to renounce their foreign citizenship when they reach the age of 21 despite no such provisions in the Constitution? If so, have anyone challenged the ICA officials on this? And most importantly, has anyone's citizenship been revoked because they have refused to take the Oath of Renunciation, Allegiance and Loyalty?

Happy to hear your views, if any. Thanks!
------

edited to mention that my son is a citizen of Country X by birth in accordance to Country X's Nationality Act:

The following persons acquire Country X nationality by birth:
(1) A person born of a father or a mother of Country X nationality, whether within or outside Country X;
Last edited by unforgiven on Tue, 25 Mar 2014 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dual Citizenship for Singaporeans by Birth

Postby taxico » Tue, 25 Mar 2014 12:55 pm

unforgiven wrote:...I have recently discovered while researching online, that the Singapore Constitution only makes mention to this for Singaporeans by registration / descent. There are no provisions for the same for Singaporeans by birth.

This is an interesting revelation because it means that my son who acquired his Singapore citizenship by birth, cannot be forced to renounce his foreign citizenship under the Singapore Constitution.

What I would like to know is, has anyone (or their kids) been in the same situation? Have they been asked to renounce their foreign citizenship when they reach the age of 21 despite no such provisions in the Constitution? If so, have anyone challenged the ICA officials on this? And most importantly, has anyone's citizenship been revoked because they have refused to take the Oath of Renunciation, Allegiance and Loyalty?


while i'm not familiar with the statutes you mentioned (the "singapore constitution" is not an "entrenched" or enshrined document) i wish you the very best in setting precedent! it would probably be helpful for many other dual nationality singaporeans, but i suspect parliament will simply change the wording to remedy the loophole swiftly if you bring about an official/public review that the relevant department has been interpreting it as they wish.

the threat i remembered was if you do not take the oath, your singapore citizenship will be revoked automatically at 22.
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 25 Mar 2014 1:02 pm

Their citizenship cannot be revoked if they were born in Singapore to a Singaporean parent, therein lies the problem. The problem is a very few countries also give citizenship by birth to the offspring of their Citizens if their citizens were citizens by birth and not by naturalization. This makes the children citizens by birth of two countries. This is why Singapore is quiet on the matter. I reckon, however, should somebody try to make a precedence out of it, they would probably find their spouses/wives/father (whoever holds PR) unceremoniously rejected on the next REP renewal. They can make it difficult. But having said that, as long as the male does his NS, I believe they will turn a blind eye (unless one becomes a noisy person). ;-)

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Postby unforgiven » Tue, 25 Mar 2014 1:26 pm

Thanks for your reply sms

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Their citizenship cannot be revoked if they were born in Singapore to a Singaporean parent


Does this mean if the letter comes when my son hits 21, we can choose to ignore them and they can do nothing about it?

sundaymorningstaple wrote:This makes the children citizens by birth of two countries.


Just found out that my son is a citizen of both countries by birth! Interesting :)

sundaymorningstaple wrote:they would probably find their spouses/wives/father (whoever holds PR) unceremoniously rejected on the next REP renewal. They can make it difficult.


Agree that this could be a possibility with the vindictive SG government.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 25 Mar 2014 2:05 pm

As long as your son has done his National Service as he should have done, and the parents haven't broadcast to every government ministry from the MOE to the ICA that your son is "also" a so-and-so" citizen, the odds are that they will never receive a letter. I believe only those children born outside of Singapore but obtained their citizenship by descent receive that letter.
Last edited by sundaymorningstaple on Fri, 28 Mar 2014 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby unforgiven » Tue, 25 Mar 2014 3:33 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:... the odds are that they will never receive a letter. I believe only those children born outside of Singapore but obtained their citizenship by descent receive that letter.


Sounds good. Thanks for sharing your experience! :)

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Postby taxico » Tue, 25 Mar 2014 3:59 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:As long as your son has done his National Service as he should have done, and the parents haven't broadcast to every government ministry from the MOE to the ICA that your son is "also" a so-and-so" citizen, the odds are that they will never receive a letter. I believe only those children born outside of Singapore but obtained their citizenship by descent receive that letter.


where was your son's US citizenship/passport app first filed? i think... and i'm just thinking here, that this might make a difference.

the OP would be wise to make sure all the paperwork/processes are in order just in case they have to bail.
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Postby unforgiven » Tue, 25 Mar 2014 4:08 pm

taxico wrote:where was your son's US citizenship/passport app first filed? i think... and i'm just thinking here, that this might make a difference.

the OP would be wise to make sure all the paperwork/processes are in order just in case they have to bail.


Here are the order of events as far as I can remember:
1.) Born in Singapore, received Singapore birth cert
2.) Applied for his Country X birth cert with Embassy in Singapore
3.) Applied for his Country X passport with Embassy in Singapore
4.) Technically not yet a Country X citizen as some administrative procedures need to be done within Country X in order to be recognized as a citizen and receive a Social Security number (no deadline as to when this can be done, he is a citizen of Country X by birth)
5.) Just recently applied for his Singaporean passport

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 25 Mar 2014 5:52 pm

This has changed a wee bit since ours were born. The new forms/fiddly-bits didn't exist when we did it. My children have a US birthcert that says across the top of the certificate, Report of the birth of a US Citizen born abroad. Apparently, this was changed at some point in time regarding the clause of Naturalized US citizen parents who have never really lived in the US but carry the citizenship only. The new forms tend to stop that. But yeah, same sequence with the exception of the new forms. Singapore BC | US BC | SG PP | US PP.

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Postby unforgiven » Thu, 27 Mar 2014 10:01 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:This has changed a wee bit since ours were born. The new forms/fiddly-bits didn't exist when we did it. My children have a US birthcert that says across the top of the certificate, Report of the birth of a US Citizen born abroad. Apparently, this was changed at some point in time regarding the clause of Naturalized US citizen parents who have never really lived in the US but carry the citizenship only. The new forms tend to stop that. But yeah, same sequence with the exception of the new forms. Singapore BC | US BC | SG PP | US PP.


Mine was SG BC| X BC | X PP | SG PP.

Is this going to be an issue?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 27 Mar 2014 10:17 am

Shouldn't be. It's only the 2nd two that are different. But really, unless you were planning on traveling shortly with the children, there wouldn't be any real need to get passports immediately. The only reason we did it was it was expedient to do it that way and it figured into my long range planning of ensuring that their 5 year Singapore passports were renewed with 10 year passports just before their 21st birthdays. ;-) We also weren't planning on flying to the US anytime soon back then either so we just put it off until that arose.
Last edited by sundaymorningstaple on Fri, 28 Mar 2014 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Thu, 27 Mar 2014 12:46 pm

I would tread carefully if you register your other son foreign citizenship and BC at foreign embassy here.
People talk , so does ICA
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Postby unforgiven » Fri, 28 Mar 2014 12:39 pm

Mad Scientist wrote:I would tread carefully if you register your other son foreign citizenship and BC at foreign embassy here.
People talk , so does ICA


Hi Mad Scientist, do you mind filling me in on how this could be an issue? Thanks!

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Postby Mad Scientist » Fri, 28 Mar 2014 1:00 pm

I have come across 10 cases here and several more outside this forum. If you register your son citizenship at the foreign embassy in SG esp US Embassy and UK High Comm , this info will be forwarded to CAB ICA.
Upon reaching 21 , if the child still in SG , a snail mail will be sent as the constitution only allows Uno citizenship for all after 21 be it he is borne here or not. By 23, if there is no reply, ICA guideline will superseed this statutes and the child will lose SG citizenship if the child is overseas or will be invited to ICA for an interview. Been there and done that for others
SG Constitution is set in stone. Only a citizen referendum can change this and IT AINT GONNA HAPPEN.
But the Immigration Guidelines and Law can be tweak to suit the issues arises from repercussion
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Postby unforgiven » Fri, 28 Mar 2014 1:42 pm

Mad Scientist wrote:I have come across 10 cases here and several more outside this forum. If you register your son citizenship at the foreign embassy in SG esp US Embassy and UK High Comm , this info will be forwarded to CAB ICA.
Upon reaching 21 , if the child still in SG , a snail mail will be sent as the constitution only allows Uno citizenship for all after 21 be it he is borne here or not. By 23, if there is no reply, ICA guideline will superseed this statutes and the child will lose SG citizenship if the child is overseas or will be invited to ICA for an interview. Been there and done that for others
SG Constitution is set in stone. Only a citizen referendum can change this and IT AINT GONNA HAPPEN.
But the Immigration Guidelines and Law can be tweak to suit the issues arises from repercussion


Thanks for the explanation. I have explored other alternatives to obtain my son's Country X citizenship but there is no other way but to get this done through the embassy here in Singapore. I am aware that the Singapore government knows about my son's dual citizenship as such, which is why I have been doing research about what the Singapore Constitution states.

If it is an issue for him to lose his X citizenship in future, then we may consider challenging ICA's requirement for him to renounce his other citizenship as the Constitution does not state that he has to. Whatever the case, we still have another 20 odd years before that happens.


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