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Change Employer Secretly

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martincymru
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Change Employer Secretly

Postby martincymru » Wed, 19 Mar 2014 2:12 pm

I am EP holder in Company A.

Company B have offered me a job but subject to EP approval.

My concern is that Company A find out that Company B have applied for an EP. At what trigger point will Company A become aware of my contact with Company B?

Clearly I am not sure of the procedure/protocols; I could ask MoM but this forum always gives me the true answer, quickly.

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Postby AngMoG » Wed, 19 Mar 2014 2:40 pm

From my experience, Company A will not find out unless they try to renew your EP after you get your IPA letter. Note that companies in general do not ask before they renew, so it all depends on when your EP with Company A expires.

I hope that answers your question.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 19 Mar 2014 3:17 pm

They won't know who you applied to, but they will know you have a application pending if they just inquire into the system. I have my HR Exec go into the MOM system at least once every two months and input my FT (not WPs though) into the system to check statuses. Occasionally we will see a pending application or IPA approval. This lets us know who to renew or not bother to renew, as the case may be.

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Re: Change Employer Secretly

Postby Wd40 » Wed, 19 Mar 2014 4:18 pm

martincymru wrote:I am EP holder in Company A.

Company B have offered me a job but subject to EP approval.

My concern is that Company A find out that Company B have applied for an EP. At what trigger point will Company A become aware of my contact with Company B?

Clearly I am not sure of the procedure/protocols; I could ask MoM but this forum always gives me the true answer, quickly.


What is your concern? Are you worried that your EP application could get rejected and your current employer will find out? If your EP gets approved then why would you care, whether your employer finds out or not, because you should have accepted the new offer anyways and made that decision to quit.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 19 Mar 2014 5:39 pm

Wd40, If the new employer finds that the new employee is already looking for new position, e.g., "pending" shows up. Then it does still matter greatly as now the current employer knows the employee, actively, wants to leave. However, the pending application doesn't mean approval is a given, either, therefore, the employee potentially finds himself between a rock & a hard place.

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Postby martincymru » Thu, 20 Mar 2014 2:12 pm

Yes SMS, precisely.

//
The system does not provide complete confidentiality on the delicate matter of changing jobs.

Furthermore, Execution of the Contract cannot take place till the EP is approved. We therefore have a limbo period between contract signed by both parties and subsequent execution after EP approved. If not approved then, for sure, I am caught between the rock and a very hard place.

I am trying to avoid upsetting my present Employer who has invested in me and would be justifiably upset. Hence my posting. Thanks.

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Postby Wd40 » Thu, 20 Mar 2014 2:31 pm

If you weigh the positives and negatives, its better to take the chance and go for the new EP application.

1st of all there is a small probability that your EP will get rejected and the probability that your EP gets rejected and your current employer actually looks into the system at the same time, is even smaller.

Even if the worst case happens due to terrible luck, even then what is the probability that your employer will get angry and take it to heart and fire you? You mentioned that he has invested in you and wouldn't want you to leave. So he might actually sigh of relief that your new EP got rejected and that you will then continue to stay there. If he fires you, its a lose lose situation. He has to again train someone.

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Postby Beeroclock » Thu, 20 Mar 2014 2:56 pm

I wonder how many firms are checking on the MOM system for applications pending as SMS mentioned.... I'm guessing it's a minority bothering to do this, but maybe I'm naïve.

Anyhow, in case you do get exposed in this way which I reckon is very unlikely, then it also comes down to how this is perceived. The issue of "loyalty" in careers has been evolving a lot over the years. Some companies/employers will take a dim view, as per SMS' earlier post. Others will be pleased to know in advance the employee is actively applying elsewhere to have an opportunity to try to understand what's going on and retain them before it's too late....

So I tend to agree with wd40, on balance it seems worth taking the chance.

An employment contract is not a marriage, it is not a sin to test your alternatives every now and then. Personally I have only changed companies once in two decades so I tend not to job hop, but looking at the younger generations nowadays it is very much becoming the norm.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 20 Mar 2014 3:22 pm

Beeroclock, I would be willing to bet, every SME, anyway, that is near or over quota on S pass holders, anyway. Probably not so careful on EP holders, I grant you that. But if you have a lot of S pass holders (levies), or over (like I am currently) I like catching some as they are letting me know they are wanting to leave anyway. We don't get rid of them, but we just don't renew their S passes on renewal (if they are still employed with us by that time). I'd rather do that and keep those S pass holders who want to stay seeing it's getting harder and harder to keep foreign workers anyway. I'm currently holding about 8 surplus S pass holders at the moment and but the 15 of June MOM will start axing them for us, if we don't. Already we are getting renewals rejected. Problem is we are downsizing anyway so as locals leave I end up with even more excess S pass holders.

It's a sucky position I'm in! Sometimes I hate HR. :-/


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