Singapore Expats Forum

Deciding to evade tax

Discuss about getting a well paid job or career advancement. Ask about salaries, expat packages, CPF & taxes for expatriate.

symbioticInTheory
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu, 13 Mar 2014

Postby symbioticInTheory » Thu, 13 Mar 2014 6:27 pm

Beeroclock wrote:
Strong Eagle has said the same in his earlier post. Where you earn the income is different from where you are paid/receive the money.

I think you should be able to amend your return. Check the time limit on ATO website but 2012 is still recent so should be fine. Especially as you have the tax ruling too, you can reference this and say earlier return was submitted erroneously on the basis of tax resident.

As I said earlier though, it's quite a substantial change and might trigger ATO investigation. They might want to verify if your situation was actually as per the information given and consistent with the ruling they gave you. Did you tell the ATO about the pay arrangement (paid by the Aust company and rcvd in your Aust bk account ?? IMO this does not look good). Difficult to know really, the only way is to try.

I would think the fact you now left Australia and reside abroad supports your claim of non residency. If you went straight back to Australia and stayed there, it would open more questions/doubt.

I agree you should call ATO and also re-read very carefully the ruling you got and if it would stand up to scrutiny based on your actual situation/ circumstances.

But regarding your Singapore situation, that is very clearcut and if it were me, I would find any means possible to get hold of the $8k and clear this rather than be a tax evader in Singapore.


First off, even thought I was working remotely my daily work did not differ in anyway and I was still contributing to projects in Australia as normal. Not even a change in my contract was made in regards to this, that is why I think my earnings are still technically in Australia... "I earn income to provide services to a company...". It's a tricky situation.
I will contact ATO, but if they even hint at this being a problem for me then I will probably decide not to pay the tax.

And seriously what's the problem in "evading tax" in a country if you never choose to return there and you haven't gained any profit in doing so? To me this issue is overblown, people do what they must to get ahead, sure, but it's a dog eat dog world.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34335
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 13 Mar 2014 8:45 pm

symbioticInTheory wrote:
PNGMK wrote:
symbioticInTheory wrote:
PNGMK wrote:What amazes me is that people like you can actually get a job.

Secondly... the judgement will be made available for worldwide debt collection.

WE've had plenty of people on this forum try to run away from CC debt in Singapore to only discover it messes up their credit worldwide.

Everything is networked now.


No need to get personal.
How does my decision to evade tax have anything to do with my technical competence as a software engineer. I have been a valuable asset to every company I have been part of. Let's just say I am now employed for a very well known IT company in a country which is not in a tax treaty with Singapore and where my bank accounts are secure :P
You're forgetting Singapore have no knowledge of my dual citizenship and are not even aware that I have left the country.


I can tell you this; I work for the one of the world's largest engineering firms and your complete lack of personal integrity in this matter would have you fired in a heartbeat REGARDLESS of your so called software skill, even though you may consider this a 'personal' matter it's not. It reflects grossly on your values as an individial and even worse on how you view your place in society. You need to get your head around this mate; your integrity is on the line here and this is a fork in the path of your life.

(And I laugh that a so called s/w engineer cannot afford a $8k bill. That's about one weeks wage for the better ones that I know).


I misread your post hence the edit: Well that makes your company extremely "special" then, maybe they possess mind reading devices. I highly doubt that my personal opinions/views on such things would be that readily detectable considering that only close friends/family are even aware about my opinions on matters such as evading tax (and the fact that I am posting anonymously using a dud email address kind of confirms this).
In fact most people I have spoken to about this issue support the idea of just not paying the tax as well.

And FYI I have never been fired, and have worked for some very well known engineering/IT firms and am now a team leader at probably the largest IT company in the world actually creating and designing things that benefit mankind rather than just being a desk jokey at PNG, Unilever or some similar corporation wasting my days in meetings... You fit perfectly in Singapore, do us a favor and stay there.

In fact I would say depending on your field it could be applaudable to possess the ability to consider a situation carefully and analyse the options available rather than blindly following what has been set down as law by some supposed higher authority (e.g. government body).

Anyway if you have nothing to contribute to the conversation then you have no purpose here.
You can judge me all you want, but I have lived a fantastic life and will continue to do so, and you actually made me laugh out loud with
You need to get your head around this mate; your integrity is on the line here and this is a fork in the path of your life.


First of all who made you the judge, you have no right to make comments on my life, and I've done far worse (but I suppose that is a matter of opinion) than refusing to pay tax in a country that I dislike completely, and will never return back to. What's the problem? I spent my money in Singapore, and if I had earned money there I would have no issues paying tax. I do however have an issue in paying tax twice. I also have a problem with being taken advantage of because it is obvious that I have money.

In regards to not being able to afford $8k. The money is obtainable but as the saying goes a fool and his money are soon parted, and my spending habits are high especially considering the recent purchase of property etc.

Also salary and skill are never directly proportional in fact in my experience it tends to be nearly always inversely proportional if I look at the former engineers now managers at my previous company.


symbioticInTheory wrote:
Beeroclock wrote:
Strong Eagle has said the same in his earlier post. Where you earn the income is different from where you are paid/receive the money.

I think you should be able to amend your return. Check the time limit on ATO website but 2012 is still recent so should be fine. Especially as you have the tax ruling too, you can reference this and say earlier return was submitted erroneously on the basis of tax resident.

As I said earlier though, it's quite a substantial change and might trigger ATO investigation. They might want to verify if your situation was actually as per the information given and consistent with the ruling they gave you. Did you tell the ATO about the pay arrangement (paid by the Aust company and rcvd in your Aust bk account ?? IMO this does not look good). Difficult to know really, the only way is to try.

I would think the fact you now left Australia and reside abroad supports your claim of non residency. If you went straight back to Australia and stayed there, it would open more questions/doubt.

I agree you should call ATO and also re-read very carefully the ruling you got and if it would stand up to scrutiny based on your actual situation/ circumstances.

But regarding your Singapore situation, that is very clearcut and if it were me, I would find any means possible to get hold of the $8k and clear this rather than be a tax evader in Singapore.


First off, even thought I was working remotely my daily work did not differ in anyway and I was still contributing to projects in Australia as normal. Not even a change in my contract was made in regards to this, that is why I think my earnings are still technically in Australia... "I earn income to provide services to a company...". It's a tricky situation.
I will contact ATO, but if they even hint at this being a problem for me then I will probably decide not to pay the tax.

And seriously what's the problem in "evading tax" in a country if you never choose to return there and you haven't gained any profit in doing so? To me this issue is overblown, people do what they must to get ahead, sure, but it's a dog eat dog world.


It's people like you who give expats a bad reputation. [-X

One can only hope it comes back to bite you in the arse if you evade your responsibility. [-o<
Last edited by sundaymorningstaple on Mon, 17 Mar 2014 1:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Strong Eagle
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10468
Joined: Sat, 10 Jul 2004
Location: Off The Red Dot
Contact:

Postby Strong Eagle » Thu, 13 Mar 2014 8:55 pm

symbioticInTheory wrote:And seriously what's the problem in "evading tax" in a country if you never choose to return there and you haven't gained any profit in doing so? To me this issue is overblown, people do what they must to get ahead, sure, but it's a dog eat dog world.


What's the problem? You knowingly and willingly violate the laws of the land that others follow. What's the difference between failing to pay S$8000 in taxes and stealing S$8000 out of the government treasury.

I'm with PNGMK on this one... you have serious ethical and integrity issues. I'd be willing to bet money that if your new employer in Europe were aware of your tax evasion, they'd drop you like a hot potato. And the reason is simple: If you'd compromise your ethics here, where else would you do so? Selling secrets to the competitors?

symbioticInTheory
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu, 13 Mar 2014

Postby symbioticInTheory » Thu, 13 Mar 2014 9:43 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:and stealing S$8000 out of the government treasury.

You mean what politicians do on a daily basis?

Strong Eagle wrote:I'd be willing to bet money that if your new employer in Europe were aware of your tax evasion, they'd drop you like a hot potato. And the reason is simple: If you'd compromise your ethics here, where else would you do so? Selling secrets to the competitors?


As a matter of fact not true, I jokingly mentioned it to a couple of my new colleagues after a few beers and we (inc. my superiors) all had a laugh about it together. The world ain't simply just black and white mate.
As I said it would've made no difference whether I received an EP or not, I could have easily obtained a spouse visa. In fact this was my initial plan.
It would not have prevented me from living in Singapore, working by the pool in my condo every day.

Of course if I were an expat in Singapore and read that someone was evading tax I'd probably be upset too, but that's part of the reason why I left that miserable place.

There is no point in condemning my actions, or voicing your opinions on whether you think it is right or wrong. It will not impact my decision, so you're wasting your time.
Last edited by symbioticInTheory on Thu, 13 Mar 2014 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Beeroclock
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 718
Joined: Thu, 31 Oct 2013

Postby Beeroclock » Thu, 13 Mar 2014 9:44 pm

symbioticInTheory wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:and stealing S$8000 out of the government treasury.

You mean what politicians do on a daily basis?

Strong Eagle wrote:I'd be willing to bet money that if your new employer in Europe were aware of your tax evasion, they'd drop you like a hot potato. And the reason is simple: If you'd compromise your ethics here, where else would you do so? Selling secrets to the competitors?


As a matter of fact not true, I jokingly mentioned it to a couple of my new colleagues after a few beers and we (inc. my superiors) all had a laugh about it together. The world ain't simply just black and white mate.
As I said it would've made no difference whether I received an EP or not, I could have easily obtained a spouse visa. In fact this was my initial plan.
It would not have prevented me from living in Singapore, working by the pool in my condo every day.

Of course if I were an expat in Singapore and read that someone was evading tax I'd probably be upset too, but that's part of the reason why I left that miserable place.

There is no point in condemning my actions, or voicing your opinions on whether you think it is right or wrong. It will not impact my decision, so you're wasting your time.


Mate your attitude is terrible, I regret trying to offer some helpful advice now actually!

Ironically you went to all the effort to get a non resident tax ruling and then paid Australia resident tax rates anyway, and now in this self induced mess you feel it's all too much tax paid and the solution is to evade in Singapore?!? If you'd just lodged the return as a non resident in Australia in the first place, as per your ruling, you might've legally reduced your tax bill to 8k in total. Instead you probably paid many times that and with a tax evasion record as the icing on the cake ... Nice work, keep it up and you can turn this into an even bigger debacle!

symbioticInTheory
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu, 13 Mar 2014

Postby symbioticInTheory » Thu, 13 Mar 2014 9:55 pm

Beeroclock wrote:Mate your attitude is terrible, I regret trying to offer some helpful advice now actually!

Ironically you went to all the effort to get a non resident tax ruling and then paid Australia resident tax rates anyway, and now in this self induced mess you feel it's all too much tax paid and the solution is to evade in Singapore?!? If you'd just lodged the return as a non resident in Australia in the first place, as per your ruling, you might've legally reduced your tax bill to 8k in total. Instead you probably paid many times that and with a tax evasion record as the icing on the cake ... Nice work, keep it up and you can turn this into an even bigger debacle!


I wasn't trying to turn this into a s**t fight. If people are going to make this personal then obviously I will defend myself.

As I said earlier the tax ruling stated I will not have to pay tax on income earned from a non-Australian source or something along those lines.
This does not apply to my situation and I believe I still had to pay tax in Australia. I spoke to the ATO a number of times (as far back as 2012), in fact I probably wasted a day in total speaking to a number of different operators, each giving different advice so I just played it safe and payed my tax in Australia.
I tried to seek advice from IRAS also mid last year and I sent numerous emails to the helpline on the website they have and never received anything back from them. I called IRAS to ask about my case numbers and they said they'd call back and never did.
In my eyes I have really tried to get this sorted out before it even became a problem in the first place, but I only have so much time and patience.

User avatar
Wd40
Director
Director
Posts: 3796
Joined: Tue, 04 Dec 2012
Location: SIndiapore

Postby Wd40 » Thu, 13 Mar 2014 9:59 pm

symbioticInTheory wrote:
Beeroclock wrote:Mate your attitude is terrible, I regret trying to offer some helpful advice now actually!

Ironically you went to all the effort to get a non resident tax ruling and then paid Australia resident tax rates anyway, and now in this self induced mess you feel it's all too much tax paid and the solution is to evade in Singapore?!? If you'd just lodged the return as a non resident in Australia in the first place, as per your ruling, you might've legally reduced your tax bill to 8k in total. Instead you probably paid many times that and with a tax evasion record as the icing on the cake ... Nice work, keep it up and you can turn this into an even bigger debacle!


I wasn't trying to turn this into a s**t fight. If people are going to make this personal then obviously I will defend myself.

As I said earlier the tax ruling stated I will not have to pay tax on income earned from a non-Australian source or something along those lines.
This does not apply to my situation and I believe I still had to pay tax in Australia. I spoke to the ATO a number of times (as far back as 2012), in fact I probably wasted a day in total speaking to a number of different operators, each giving different advice so I just played it safe and payed my tax in Australia.
I tried to seek advice from IRAS also mid last year and I sent numerous emails to the helpline on the website they have and never received anything back from them. I called IRAS to ask about my case numbers and they said they'd call back and never did.
In my eyes I have really tried to get this sorted out before it even became a problem in the first place, but I only have so much time and patience.


Beeroclock, I think you have mis-understood the OP's statement regarding him getting any tax ruling as a non-resident. I dont think he has received any ruling personally addressed to him. I think he just did some research and then read somewhere about the tax ruling but later found out its not applicable to him.

There is no point discussing about ethics. Either a person has it or doesn't. We can only warn him about the possible consequences but if he has decided to take the un-ethical route then its his choice, his life.
Last edited by Wd40 on Thu, 13 Mar 2014 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

symbioticInTheory
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu, 13 Mar 2014

Postby symbioticInTheory » Thu, 13 Mar 2014 10:03 pm

No I received a private ruling from the ATO. I will look for it tonight and post it verbatim (if I have it here with me).

Beeroclock
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 718
Joined: Thu, 31 Oct 2013

Postby Beeroclock » Thu, 13 Mar 2014 10:10 pm

Wd40 wrote:Beeroclock, I think you have mis-understood the OP's statement regarding him getting any tax ruling as a non-resident. I dont think he has received any ruling personally addressed to him. I think he just did some research and then read somewhere about the tax ruling but later found out its not applicable to him.

There is no point discussing about ethics. Either a person has it or doesn't. We can only warn him about the possible consequences but if he has decided to take the un-ethical route then its his choice, his life.
under Australian self assessment philosophy you can request a private ruling from ATO if unsure or if your situation doesn't fall within usual guidelines

PNGMK
Director
Director
Posts: 4895
Joined: Thu, 21 Mar 2013

Postby PNGMK » Thu, 13 Mar 2014 10:32 pm

symbioticInTheory wrote:No I received a private ruling from the ATO. I will look for it tonight and post it verbatim (if I have it here with me).


I wish the OP best of luck. To me it's such a simple thing to fix and if his answer is to break the law, that speaks volumes about his character.

Glad he's not on my team.


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Careers & Jobs in Singapore”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests