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the lynx
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Postby the lynx » Wed, 26 Mar 2014 9:53 am

Max Headroom wrote:As I understand it, both black boxes are overwritten every 30 minutes, so even if they did find them, the CVR would have nothing but 30 minutes of white noise and the FDR would show all parameters pretty much flat-lining eh.


!!!

I've never thought that black boxes overwrite information. Then retrieving one through a perilous task is moot.

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Postby PNGMK » Wed, 26 Mar 2014 11:26 am

Max Headroom wrote:As I understand it, both black boxes are overwritten every 30 minutes, so even if they did find them, the CVR would have nothing but 30 minutes of white noise and the FDR would show all parameters pretty much flat-lining eh.

And that's if they find them.

I think, now more than ever, a case can be made for uploading all black box data real-time, rather than keeping it in a metal box that you then have to go and find, bring up and parse; well, the bits that haven't been crushed, burned or water-logged.

I'm sure uploading is expensive, but so is endless needle-in-a-hay-stack sniffing around for a few metal boxes in a god-forsaken and ever-stormy ocean.


It's much longer than 30 mins.... more like 30 hours now with modern boxes.

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Postby ecureilx » Wed, 26 Mar 2014 11:34 am

earthfriendly wrote:the industry to do because it significantly adds to safety," he said. Other satellite providers are also developing tracking systems.



if you know a bit on how all things flying work, to certify and all will cost a load of money. then the 10$ will become 100k per plane

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Postby ecureilx » Wed, 26 Mar 2014 11:38 am

PNGMK wrote:
It's much longer than 30 mins.... more like 30 hours now with modern boxes.


FDR is longer 24 hour or so I think

CVR is lesser .... 90 mins I think, as more than one airline pilot / engineering team has ground run for 2 hours to clean info ...

unless stuff changed very recently

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Postby the lynx » Wed, 26 Mar 2014 11:38 am

PNGMK wrote:
Max Headroom wrote:As I understand it, both black boxes are overwritten every 30 minutes, so even if they did find them, the CVR would have nothing but 30 minutes of white noise and the FDR would show all parameters pretty much flat-lining eh.

And that's if they find them.

I think, now more than ever, a case can be made for uploading all black box data real-time, rather than keeping it in a metal box that you then have to go and find, bring up and parse; well, the bits that haven't been crushed, burned or water-logged.

I'm sure uploading is expensive, but so is endless needle-in-a-hay-stack sniffing around for a few metal boxes in a god-forsaken and ever-stormy ocean.


It's much longer than 30 mins.... more like 30 hours now with modern boxes.


Which is still moot, no?

I tried Googling about the black box rewriting itself but can't find. Can anyone point me to the right direction?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 26 Mar 2014 12:06 pm

I had heard early on that the pilot's wife and children left the family home the day before the ill-fated flight. It would seem that the family breakup may well have plausibility as to what happened............

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/air-accidents ... d=11226334

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Postby ecureilx » Wed, 26 Mar 2014 12:06 pm

the lynx wrote:
I tried Googling about the black box rewriting itself but can't find. Can anyone point me to the right direction?


google FLIGHT DATA RECORDER and COCKPIT VOICE RECORDER

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Postby rdueej » Wed, 26 Mar 2014 12:13 pm

I did some searching online and found that the minimum requirements are 25 hrs for the flight data recorder (FDR) and 2 hrs for the cockpit voice recorder (CVR). ( link1 , link2 )

My question is do these boxes detect failures or accidents and stop overwriting data after a crash ?

Also, I remember reading that the FDR emits sonar signals for tracking it underwater. I would think that these sonar transmissions are not always on, so the FDR should know when it has crashed into the sea. And if it can detect such accidents, it can simply stop overwriting existing data ?

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Postby Beeroclock » Wed, 26 Mar 2014 12:33 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:I had heard early on that the pilot's wife and children left the family home the day before the ill-fated flight. It would seem that the family breakup may well have plausibility as to what happened............

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/air-accidents ... d=11226334
yeah I posted that here on last Monday 17th, back on page 9........ I also thought it seemed a significant point and was surprised it hadn't been highlighted earlier, or even much since then !

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Postby Max Headroom » Wed, 26 Mar 2014 12:57 pm

Well, between searching against the clock because the batteries only last 30 days and current black box storage limits, I reckon it's time to upgrade to uploading the FDR and CVR data, by way of satellites if need be, to dedicated ground-based servers.

If Google can store Gazilian Yottabytes' worth of dancing babies and dramatic hamsters, I'm pretty sure they can reserve some space for black box data.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 26 Mar 2014 12:59 pm

You forgot the cat photos. :lol:

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Postby the lynx » Wed, 26 Mar 2014 1:15 pm

ecureilx wrote:
the lynx wrote:
I tried Googling about the black box rewriting itself but can't find. Can anyone point me to the right direction?


google FLIGHT DATA RECORDER and COCKPIT VOICE RECORDER


Thanks. Found it.

The Cockpit Sound Recorder (CSR) provided a progressive erasing/recording loop (lasting 30 or more minutes) of all sounds (explosion, voice, and the noise of any aircraft structural components undergoing serious fracture and breakage) which could be overheard in the cockpit and was an analog device as described by Boniface in his patent.


Most FDRs record approximately 17–25 hours worth of data in a continuous loop (citation needed).

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Postby PNGMK » Wed, 26 Mar 2014 2:16 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:I had heard early on that the pilot's wife and children left the family home the day before the ill-fated flight. It would seem that the family breakup may well have plausibility as to what happened............

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/air-accidents ... d=11226334


Yeah as one US source asked; why are they protecting the person (his wife) who knows most about his state of mind?

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Postby zzm9980 » Wed, 26 Mar 2014 2:26 pm

rdueej wrote:I did some searching online and found that the minimum requirements are 25 hrs for the flight data recorder (FDR) and 2 hrs for the cockpit voice recorder (CVR). ( link1 , link2 )

My question is do these boxes detect failures or accidents and stop overwriting data after a crash ?

Also, I remember reading that the FDR emits sonar signals for tracking it underwater. I would think that these sonar transmissions are not always on, so the FDR should know when it has crashed into the sea. And if it can detect such accidents, it can simply stop overwriting existing data ?


Yes, it stops recording in a crash. Otherwise the FDRs for the AirFrance flight found two years later would have been pointless, no?

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Postby rdueej » Wed, 26 Mar 2014 3:45 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
rdueej wrote:I did some searching online and found that the minimum requirements are 25 hrs for the flight data recorder (FDR) and 2 hrs for the cockpit voice recorder (CVR). ( link1 , link2 )

My question is do these boxes detect failures or accidents and stop overwriting data after a crash ?

Also, I remember reading that the FDR emits sonar signals for tracking it underwater. I would think that these sonar transmissions are not always on, so the FDR should know when it has crashed into the sea. And if it can detect such accidents, it can simply stop overwriting existing data ?


Yes, it stops recording in a crash. Otherwise the FDRs for the AirFrance flight found two years later would have been pointless, no?


Exactly, that is what I was thinking.

I was thrown off after reading this series of posts.

the lynx wrote:
PNGMK wrote:
Max Headroom wrote:As I understand it, both black boxes are overwritten every 30 minutes, so even if they did find them, the CVR would have nothing but 30 minutes of white noise and the FDR would show all parameters pretty much flat-lining eh.

And that's if they find them.
...

It's much longer than 30 mins.... more like 30 hours now with modern boxes.


Which is still moot, no?

I tried Googling about the black box rewriting itself but can't find. Can anyone point me to the right direction?


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