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Obtaining PR after marrying an Singapore citizen

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RockyRambo
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Obtaining PR after marrying an Singapore citizen

Postby RockyRambo » Sun, 02 Mar 2014 11:35 am

Hi,

My gf is an Singapore citizen (of Indian descent) w/ a salary of 5.5k per month and I am an Indian citizen w/ a salary same as that of hers. We're thinking to get married by around mid 2015. By that time, I would have lived and worked in Singapore for 1.5 years. I know I will get a one year LTVP after marriage and I'll have to apply for PR separately. I have read somewhere that obtaining a PR is not automatic as well. However, how long could it possibly take to get the PR after marriage, based on current situation assessment? 2.5 years including the processing time? As in, is it advisable to apply after 2 years for a PR after marriage?
Also, during this phase, if both of us move to a different country which means I have no longer been residing inside Singapore for some time, would that be a deterrent to application?

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Postby taxico » Sun, 02 Mar 2014 11:42 am

better to stay on EP than LTVP - you can't work on LTVP during the first year i think.

you are right, PR is not "automatic," neither is it guaranteed.

i think the general consensus is: the longer you two are married, the more money both of you make, the more kids you two have, the better it is for your application. i get the impression boy kids get brownie points.
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Postby RockyRambo » Sun, 02 Mar 2014 12:18 pm

taxico wrote:better to stay on EP than LTVP - you can't work on LTVP during the first year i think.

you are right, PR is not "automatic," neither is it guaranteed.

i think the general consensus is: the longer you two are married, the more money both of you make, the more kids you two have, the better it is for your application. i get the impression boy kids get brownie points.


Yeah, that's right but isn't there a ballpark estimate of the timeline when an application (let's say my application) is likely to succeed for a PR? I think the most important criterion for the govt to approve is the combined salary and the tenure to marriage. So, wouldn't a two year wait post marriage be a sufficient enough time period for a greater probability to succeed?

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Postby Wd40 » Sun, 02 Mar 2014 12:30 pm

No, the process of Singapore PR evaluation is a complete blackbox and there is absolutely no sure shot success formula. It is very well possible that people from certain categories may never ever get PR in their lifetime no matter how much they earn and what they do. Not saying that this will happen to you, though.

Its not like the Australia PR process which is points based, where if you have the reqd number of points you will get the PR eventually.

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Postby RockyRambo » Sun, 02 Mar 2014 12:37 pm

Wd40 wrote:No, the process of Singapore PR evaluation is a complete blackbox and there is absolutely no sure shot success formula. It is very well possible that people from certain categories may never ever get PR in their lifetime no matter how much they earn and what they do. Not saying that this will happen to you, though.

Its not like the Australia PR process which is points based, where if you have the reqd number of points you will get the PR eventually.


hmmm..got it! However, what happens usually in such cases is people analyze the historical data (quality and quantity of applications/ cases) to determine the probability of success. I know Singapore government hates 'consultants', etc. for processing applications, but isn't it advisable to approach the immigration consultants for an advice on such matters because they would've completed this process for innumerable applicants before as well?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 02 Mar 2014 1:11 pm

RockyRambo wrote:
Wd40 wrote:No, the process of Singapore PR evaluation is a complete blackbox and there is absolutely no sure shot success formula. It is very well possible that people from certain categories may never ever get PR in their lifetime no matter how much they earn and what they do. Not saying that this will happen to you, though.

Its not like the Australia PR process which is points based, where if you have the reqd number of points you will get the PR eventually.


hmmm..got it! However, what happens usually in such cases is people analyze the historical data (quality and quantity of applications/ cases) to determine the probability of success. I know Singapore government hates 'consultants', etc. for processing applications, but isn't it advisable to approach the immigration consultants for an advice on such matters because they would've completed this process for innumerable applicants before as well?


Seeing you have already determined in your mind a solution that flies in the face of what we know and have known over the past 8 years of this board and the hundreds of successes and rejections, there is nothing we can say so, therefore, give your hard earned dollars to a consultant if you would like. They are all like PT Barnum, they know there is a fool born every second and they will milk those that they can. The odds of being successful using a consultant is exactly the same as doing it yourself.

I was told, many years later (at a social venue at SICC), by the immigration officer who gave me my PR, that ICA doesn't like 3rd parties as they have designed the applications to be as easy as can be and as painless as possible (except for the waiting - which is often nothing more than a method of seeing how badly an applicant really wants the PR.) Their take is generally "Wonder what they are trying to hide" So, my advice? Use the consultant and spend the money and then come back here and whine some more about being rejected.

The parameters of their vetting process change from time to time thereby giving them complete flexibility to adjust the outcomes based on the government current policies even from a month to month basis if necessary. All applications for residency, be the EP, SP, WP, PEP, PR or even citizenship are given a criteria that applicants have to meet "To have their applications accepted for consideration". Please do not confuse "consideration" as meaning you are guaranteed success as that is an internal process the outsiders have no clue to. That's not likely to change. The data set we have is accumulated anecdotal evidence but it's only the tip of the iceberg as nobody is required to join this forum and keep up updated.

Good Luck. With you attitude for looking for shortcuts, I feel you are going to need it.

Something you mentioned in an earlier post, that after you get married you will automatically get a LTVP. Not, it's NOT automatic and they can refuse that as well if they suspect you married for a ticket to stay permanently in Singapore because you know that there is no way you would get it on you current salary. ICA is a darn sight smarter that you think. They seen it all, I assure you.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 02 Mar 2014 1:17 pm

Rocky, the reason I am saying all of that is that I have personally made all the mistakes and paid the price with time in order to get my PR. That is the reason the ICA officer told me, many years later. Been there, done that. Marrying a Singaporean does NOT confer any rights or benefits at all when applying for PR. If fact, when you marry, ROM will make you sign a statement confirming that you understand that very fact, so, if you ARE marrying for convenience, I suggest you have another look, as your family probably aren't happy either.

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Postby RockyRambo » Sun, 02 Mar 2014 2:39 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
RockyRambo wrote:
Wd40 wrote:No, the process of Singapore PR evaluation is a complete blackbox and there is absolutely no sure shot success formula. It is very well possible that people from certain categories may never ever get PR in their lifetime no matter how much they earn and what they do. Not saying that this will happen to you, though.

Its not like the Australia PR process which is points based, where if you have the reqd number of points you will get the PR eventually.


hmmm..got it! However, what happens usually in such cases is people analyze the historical data (quality and quantity of applications/ cases) to determine the probability of success. I know Singapore government hates 'consultants', etc. for processing applications, but isn't it advisable to approach the immigration consultants for an advice on such matters because they would've completed this process for innumerable applicants before as well?


Seeing you have already determined in your mind a solution that flies in the face of what we you know that there is no way you would get it on you current salary. ICA is a darn sight smarter that you think. They seen it all, I assure you.


Thanks, however, I won't be marrying for convenience to get a ticket or something. It's just that a marriage is a big step and you need to be careful and plan things accordingly and that's why you come and ask people and gather information. I understand your POV very well on this.

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Postby RockyRambo » Sun, 02 Mar 2014 2:43 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Rocky, the reason I am saying all of that is that I have personally made all the mistakes and paid the price with time in order to get my PR. That is the reason the ICA officer told me, many years later. Been there, done that. Marrying a Singaporean does NOT confer any rights or benefits at all when applying for PR. If fact, when you marry, ROM will make you sign a statement confirming that you understand that very fact, so, if you ARE marrying for convenience, I suggest you have another look, as your family probably aren't happy either.


Yeah! I do understand all what you're saying. My basic question was that is there a timeline when I should apply after marriage? As in, all of you being so experienced (being there done that) about it, so you would know that , let's say, if I apply before 2 years, I am bound to get rejected, etc.

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Postby Wd40 » Sun, 02 Mar 2014 3:05 pm

If duration is really the only factor and if you apply early they will just tell you to reapply afterr XX years. But like Taxico said, the longer you stay here and have kids the higher the chances, especially for family ties application.

We have seen here before that husband applying as a dependent is looked less favorably compared to wife applying as a dependent. Also, I hope you know that your nationality is actually the biggest factor. So those are the negatives rather than positives so you are better off polishing your skills and trying to earn a better salary and spend some good duration here and produce a kid or two to mitigate those negatives.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 02 Mar 2014 4:25 pm

Add to that, the fact the Rocky seems to be on either a Q or P2 EP which might not be looked on favourably either considering that is smack in the middle of the PMETs that Singapore is promoting for their own.

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Postby RockyRambo » Sun, 02 Mar 2014 4:28 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Add to that, the fact the Rocky seems to be on either a Q or P2 EP which might not be looked on favourably either considering that is smack in the middle of the PMETs that Singapore is promoting for their own.


So the easiest way is to get a P1 by earning at least 8k ! The bottom line is that the sg government looks at salary as one of the most important factors in determining any kind of an outcome whatsoever it maybe.

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Postby taxico » Sun, 02 Mar 2014 6:16 pm

RockyRambo wrote:...So the easiest way is to get a P1 by earning at least 8k ! The bottom line is that the sg government looks at salary as one of the most important factors in determining any kind of an outcome whatsoever it maybe.


i don't think so. it's really a total package more than just one major component... (except for malaysian chinese appliants, i think)

but if this is how you're reading all the replies above, then... luck. you'll need it.
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 02 Mar 2014 6:44 pm

^^This.

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Postby the lynx » Mon, 03 Mar 2014 9:43 am

RR, listen to them. They are right. Nothing is clear and nothing is certain. Best to wait and improve on your profile. No other 'guaranteed' way, no consultant, no loophole, no short cut, no formula.

Plan your wedding/marriage with open options on your mobility. And enjoy it ;-)


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